• iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    62
    ·
    13 days ago

    Never thought I’d see the absolute downfall of Intel in my lifetime but the last decade has not been good for them.

  • schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    45
    ·
    13 days ago

    I was curious how bad 10% was, so I went digging to see what it should be.

    A “good” yield target on a modern process is something like 60-70%, so this is a shocking shockingly bad oof, though it’s also not a complete process, so it’s possible they can salvage this and turn it into something viable but, still, oof.

  • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    34
    ·
    13 days ago

    For the record, the TSMC N2 node being worked on experimentally at the moment (and is expected to be more performant than Intel’s 18A) currently has over 60% yields.

    We don’t have exact figures on TSMC N4 (what AMD CPUs currently use), but reporting is widely that it is “over 80%”.

  • AnomalousBit@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    22
    ·
    13 days ago

    For someone more in tune with the process, honest question: how is this not a failure on ASML, who makes the lithography machines? Or the company who makes the ultra pure silicon wafers? Is Intel just feeding unetchable garbage into the machines?

    • theneverfox@pawb.social
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      31
      ·
      13 days ago

      I think there’s more to it - IIRC, this is Intel’s factory

      Things that can mess up a batch- clean room not clean enough, vibrations from walking/vehicles/tectonic activity/lack of mechanical precision, temperature variations, impurities in chemicals or wafers, em interference, static charges, etc

      We’re talking a few dozen atoms in the wrong place, the tolerances are minuscule when you’re making modern chips. A small problem in the supply chain, process, or the building itself could all kill your yield

      I’m not an expert or anything, but I know this is a very unforgiving field

    • modeler@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      12 days ago

      TSMC and Intel both use ASML lithography, but there are many many more steps than just lithography - Intel, TSMC, Samsung and other chipmakers use different processes to make the components on their chips (many of which are patented and so owned by specific parties).

      These things include the physical structure of the components and wiring on the chip, how the silicon is doped and with what ions, what coatings are put on to be etched in the lithography and what coatings are applied to the etched layers, how the chips are packaged and also how multiple chips can be combined into one package.

      Basically there are similarities but also hige differences between the different manufacturers, and a lot of trade secrets.

      If you’re interested in this kind of thing, I’d recommend the youtube channel Asianometry - the content creator is amazing.

    • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      13 days ago

      I have no idea about anything at all, but part of me wants to see this be the result of some predictable, stupid mistake, like a unit conversion error or something, and another part of me wants it to be something totally unpredictable, like some unique gravitational anomaly or some latent radiation of some kind, like, something with muons.

      • rumba@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        edit-2
        12 days ago

        Or some very subtle sabotage. There’s always room for a good conspiracy theory here and there.

        • vinnymac@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          12 days ago

          Let’s workshop one.

          The remote controlled Tesla robots killed the UHC CEO during their morning commute, they were in a big hurry because they were late for work, and as they hurried into work that morning they accidentally pushed Jim who was holding a scalding hot cup of coffee. Jim exclaimed, “goddamnit Elon!”, as his coffee went flying across the room. The coffee leaked under the door of a sealed clean room and that shifted 3 atoms to the left in the EUV (Extreme Ultraviolet) Lithography System. Ruining the entire wafer. Jim quietly cleaned up the spill, and went on with his day. You might be wondering who the operator of the Robot was, and it was of course, Tom Cruise. He always hated Jim.

    • solrize@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      13 days ago

      TSMC uses the same lithography and same wafers and gets working chips. It’s the fab process. Is it fixable? Idk.