Yo mama so fat she’s a 10,000 ton derrick drilling for oil in the Gulf Of America
I get that this post is a bit of a satirical question, but as a serious answer to the question. I think it’s because for a lot of people it is impossible (or feels impossible) to not consume fossil fuel products. If we then label it as bad then we feel like we are thus the bad guy while we feel powerless to not be that.
Basically people are forced to be something they don’t want to be thus to cope they make it their personality because that gives a sense of control over choices we really do not have a say in.
IMO you’re much too charitable. I think these are the reasons (at least for American conservatives), roughly in order of what I consider to be the most to least sympathetic:
- A fondness and nostalgia for fossil power. To be clear I think if this is the reason you’re supporting fossil fuel use when lives are on the line you’re crazy, especially when museums and motorsport categories for older engine technologies can (and already do) exist, but I can at least understand it.
- Anxiety about change. While there are lots of reasons to think that renewables will put us in a better position than fossil fuels (they’re cheaper, can be less centralized, and better insulated against geopolitical instability) a lot of people are very anxious about things like EV range and grid instability. If they’re a “low information voter” or have been fed a steady diet of oil industry propaganda then they probably have a very exaggerated view of these issues and a very poor understanding of how the world works.
- The entire idea of anthropogenic climate change and things like a circular economy directly contradicts the Christian worldview they’re operating under. For one they don’t believe in climate change for the same reason they don’t believe in herd immunity from vaccines or systemic racism. Cumulative effects, dynamic systems, and tipping points aren’t part of how they think the world works. Secondly, they view the world as something their god gave to humanity to conquer, dominate, and exploit. Telling them that they can’t suck the world dry and throw away the husk come judgment day is tantamount to telling them their religion is fake.
- For a portion of the population the above three attitudes have metastasized into conspiracy theories and fascist ideologies. Things like a belief that “15 minute cities” means they will be put into open air prisons, or that wanting to reduce resource consumption means that they will be subjected to population control so that black people can replace white people. I don’t feel like writing a giant comment examining the core of the reactionary mind, but suffice it to say that things like language and truth are very fluid for them. If something makes them feel bad then it must be bad, literally and physically. The conspiracy theories are created to justify the feelings.
- In addition to the above plenty of people want to hurt others. The fact that large powerful vehicles kill people, the fact that they’re loud, inconvenient for others, and spew black smoke, makes them more appealing. The fact that oil use creates wars that kill children is a bonus. All of this is tough and manly. It makes them feel good.
It’s simpler than that. Left leaning folks exist within the contradiction just fine via harm reduction.
Right wing people just will never admit they are wrong about anything. That’s really it. They will simply invent an entirely different reality before they will knock over a single card in their card house.
Also, for many, their livelihood and how they provide for their family is directly tied to fossil fuels and the price of fossil fuels.
Also, for
manynearly all, their livelihood…Almost everyone lives by moving vehicles with fossil fuels, making or moving petrochemical plastics, growing things with fertilizer sourced from oil processing, etc…
i mean we need both the nitrate/nitrite i forget which and the phosphate fertilizer to maintain a good healthy soil and i think the shit is the phosphate one.
Do not, my friends, become addicted to oil. It will take hold of you, and you will resent its absence!
Many people have as an immutable axiom “I am a good person”
When you suggest they are doing something bad, like contributing to climate change, this clashes with that axiom.
That clash causes discomfort. Most people are, frankly, lazy cowards. They could accept that they are not being a good person all the time, and update their axiom. But that’s scary and feels bad. They could also try to do something about climate change (or whatever the topic is. see also: veganism), but that’s also hard. It’s far easier to just lash out at the source of discomfort.
The oatmeal did a comic on basically this topic: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe
The back-fire effect explains why so many people love to watch Fox News, even when they’ve admitted in court that they’re not news and no rational person would take them seriously. Reinforcing beliefs through propaganda is comforting - and no amount logic or fact checking is going to change it.
… yeah we’re basically fucked as a species.
I don’t think they’re lazy cowards - or rather, I think “lazy cowards” is something lazy cowards say to explain away lazy cowards they disagree with - I think they grow up in an environment where admitting fault or even suspending judgment is something that will get you attacked or taken advantage of. Whether by parents, teachers, classmates, friends, politicians, cops, priests, or gods.
Children aren’t great at lying. If they don’t believe they are a good person, people will notice that self-doubt and take advantage. Believing you are axiomatically good is safer, protecting you from bullies of all kinds who are looking for someone who won’t resist being punished.
Properly dealing with climate change often requires a major lifestyle change that is largely outside of people’s control. It’s natural that people who haven’t processed their childhood schemas would respond to it according to those schemas, and that for people whose childhood schemas are centered around avoiding responsibility they respond by stall tactics like pretending climate change isn’t real so people waste time proving it to them.
“lazy cowards” is something lazy cowards say
Good job spotting the ironic tension! Now can you explain how the paragraphs below it help resolve that tension?
I can’t
Veganism is not a solution to climate change. First anything that requires everybody to agree on one solution is always going to be a non-starter. But also veganism just doesn’t work for everybody, like myself, I became so malnourished that I nearly died. It’s simply not possible for everybody to be vegan and still get all of the nutrients they need. Especially in this economy.
“in this economy” veganism is cheaper than vegetarianism is cheaper than omnivorism
If you became malnourished you weren’t eating vegan, you were eating junk food.
But to actually address your point, we don’t need everyone to be vegan, or for those that do to be vegan consistently. Even cutting consumption of animal products by a third would have a huge impact.
denying others experience doesn’t change it
Right you know everything about my life and what my nutritionist and I talked about at the time. Yeah… I fucking hate responses like this.
For the record I became malnourished because it was impossible to afford the number of calories I needed without meat or dairy. And even though that was some years ago I can pretty much guarantee you that that’s still going to be the case in small towns like the one I was in at the time. Veganism is only cheaper than anything else if you don’t need 4000 calories a day to stay alive and have options that aren’t Walmart to shop at.
it was impossible to afford the number of calories I needed without meat or dairy.
… Because meat and dairy are massively subsidized. If we wanted veganism to be a part of mitigating the climate crisis then it would obviously involve changes in economic policy.
my dude, meat is already just a seasoning in my meals unless we’re doing BBQ. let people pick their own diets. they might have specific reasons that the one you’ve decided is best doesn’t work. i end up in the hospital rather frequently if i try to eat vegan. it really did not go well and the solutions we could think up to keep me out of the hospital were to either take out the foods with nutrients (because of course those were the ones putting me in the hospital) or to add in cheeses, eggs, and meats. i’ve always kind of had these two bucket list goals: first, to eat one of everything and rise to the top of the food chain, and second, to stay out of the hospital. so like, veganism really didn’t seem morally compatible with those life goals and i instead eat a lot of delicious delicious gyro and empanada (from the empanada bear)
Even cutting consumption of animal products by a third would have a huge impact.
I doubt it. did you try that? can you show me on this graph when you started?
So, to clarify, veganism was a separate example of things that cause a strong emotional reaction.
Second of all, I don’t really believe you but I don’t especially care.
Good thing my axiom is, “I’m a hypocrite just like everybody else, but at least I know it.”
The yt channel Technology Connections made a video on solar and made a great point that stuck with me
If oil was so precious and valuable and important why do we light so much of it on fire?
I mean, I think it’s precious for its ability to be lit on fire
Here comes the wind power: Woosh
We still need things like grease, lubricants, and plastics. We rely heavily on oil products that are not burned and oil is a finite resource, yet we like to light most of it on fire anyway even though we have energy alternatives that are more cost effective in the long run.
If you love public sanitation so much, why do you literally shit on it?
Well, where I live the propaganda goes hard saying that oil is responsible for our entire economy so we should be grateful.
People even have I ❤️ Oil bumper stickers here. It’s embarrassing.
I like to imagine how the world would look if socialized healthcare were idealized the same way as oil/guns:
“Come and take it! 💉”
“We call 911!”
“A healthy society is a polite society”
“Better to have healthcare and not need it than to need healtcare and not have it.”
“Heal, baby, heal!”
“Health is wealth.”
“Domestic healthcare. National strength.”
“More coverage, more jobs.”
“Lower costs start with public health.”
You’ve got my vote!
I’m about to start my own political party and call it “The Gas Price Party’”. Since it’s the only issue that matters for 75% of the population, I bet I could get elected just because of the name.
The rent is too damn high!
That’s exactly why we want to keep gas price low, so you can give the money you saved to your landlord.
I like this guy’s words!
Enough of this retarded woke politicians, we say it as it is: High gas price is gay!
Gas prices still come second to “owning the libs”
This describes it pretty well:
Propaganda works. Is why.
Everyone likes palaeontology until it turns a profit, smh my head
Shaking my head my head
RIP in peace ATM machines
F
There are politically motivated “think tanks” that pump out a lot of misinformation, in a similar vein as the tobacco lobbies used to do.
Either they claim that there’s no such thing as climate change, or “rising temperatures are of all times”, or “we humans didn’t cause climate change” to (in my country) “we’re just a tiny country, what we do, doesn’t make any difference on a global scale, because (insert third world country) will just continue to harm the environment”.
Some people (who seemingly are bereft of any conscience or empathy) are susceptible to such propaganda, because it makes them feel better than with the news about climate change.
1960s “That didn’t happen” Early(ish) research on climate change is buried.
1970s “And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.” Severity of impacts downplayed
1980s “And if it was, it’s not a big deal.” Oil companies form a coalition to oppose regulation."
1990s “And if it is, it wasn’t my fault.” Think tanks begin switch to accepting climate change but rejecting it’s anthropogenic nature."
2000s “And if it was, I didn’t mean it.” Oil companies try to disavow their earlier knowledge of research, engage in greenwashing.
2010s “And if I did, you deserved it.” BP, among others, encourages consumers to limit their carbon footprint to save the environment, despite the fact that the majority of contribution is from industrial and commercial sources.
This timeline is sloppy. There’s a lot of overlap. I’m more trying to paint a picture of what happened. In reality, the research is older. Some parties are still trying to argue the climate either isn’t changing or that the earth is getting colder. Chaos is an important part of disinformation.
“I’ll have you know my great-great-great-great*108 ancestor turned into oil recently, have some damn respect for my deep family history!” /s
Because it’s all about money.
All jokes aside what an amazing engineering marvel!
Like lead pipes!
Because admitting climate change is real means effort and change.
- Effort, because those responsible for causing climate change need to be deposed. Nobody will make that change happen if their sofa is so comfy and there aren’t any problems that personally effect them.
- Change, because deposing those responsible for climate change also means getting rid of the system that enables them. If the solution to climate change were a drop-in replacement to something that requires no change whatsoever in daily norms it would have a lot more support.
I’ll speak for the voices I hear around me because I hear this all the time in my conservative area:
Climate has demonstrably always been changing Our region has been cooler than average for all of the 2000s People don’t trust when the solution is always “give us more money and power”
curious about how exactly is advocating for climate change awareness asking for more money and power?
Generally speaking, that is often not the reality of it, but that is the perception that conservatives have.
Right wing propaganda media has been projecting the greed and desire for totalitarian control onto their opposition for decades.
That’s easy: because the side advocating about climate change wants to come into your home and ban your gas stove, your gas water heater, your gas yard equipment, and your vehicles and replace them with “less efficient” versions. There is a ton of “pay more for less” FUD, and just enough of that FUD is or was true for that crowd to see it as a money/power grab.
The side against it is then amplifying all of that while blaming higher prices on the killing of coal and gas while spouting laissez faire freedom propaganda.
The global warming doesn’t exist side believes it is a grift the same way everyone outside the MAGA bubble believes the Alt Right influencer/commentator shit is a grift, or the Flat Earth movement is a grift. There are enough grifters and true believers in any system that can be cherry picked to reinforce any individual’s viewpoint.
