Six days ago, upgradeable laptop maker Framework tried to convince its fractious user community to live in a “big tent” after a Debian developer objected to the company’s sponsorship of Hyprland and its social media promotion of Omarchy, with both projects associated with politically polarizing viewpoints.
Antoine Beaupré, aka anarcat, demanded that Framework clarify its political position with regard to these two projects.
Hyprland, a Wayland compositor, is led by a “toxic and hateful community,” Beaupré observed, and Omarchy, a Linux distribution, comes from David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH), a controversial figure in the Ruby and Linux communities.
its because tech companies are generally so out if touch with their userbase
Does anybody have a source of the direct sponsorship to Obarchy. All I found was a couple of Twitter posts.
I detailed it out in comments elsewhere, but Omarchy was not directly financially supported. It did receive outsized promotion (not just a few twitter posts), but the real telling part is in events.
Rails World (where DHH was the keynote speaker) received more than DebConf, KDE Akademy, Open Source Hardware Summit, the Linux Foundation, and the Linux Vendor Firmware Service combined.
For a hardware company, thats kinda weird. Hackaday Supercon and Hack Club were the only ones to receive more than RailsWorld. Hackaday makes clear sense, and I would say Hack Club does as well. Rails World though? How?
And one more bit to note - nrp has acknowledged that FW provided DHH with equipment, but oddly, that was left off the list, despite listing others such as 1 unit to Nixcon, 3 units to LabsCon, and 2 to RISC-V International.
Looks like they didn’t sponsor Omarchy, but they did promote it on their twitter a couple of times: https://x.com/FrameworkPuter/status/1960029405067313546
Mostly right, it was also far more than anything else brought up by FW twitter, but there was financial support in hardware as well (mentioned by nrp, and oddly enough, not detailed in the blog post).
As well as one other item (quoting myself here):
Rails World (where DHH was the keynote speaker) received more than DebConf, KDE Akademy, Open Source Hardware Summit, the Linux Foundation, and the Linux Vendor Firmware Service combined.
There’s a scene in The Good Place where they find nobody goes to heaven anymore because every act they do, no matter how much they’re trying to do good, has a lot of negative baggage attached which nobody could track and that counts as a sin of the person anyway.
That old dude getting bullied by the kid was pretty impactful for me. I felt like going full TJ Miller in silicone valley and slapping the little shit and telling him to get me some Adderall.
Context for those OOTL
DHH Is Way Worse Than I Thought
DHH: “London is no longer the city I was infatuated with in the late ’90s and early 2000s. Chiefly because it’s no longer full of native Brits. In 2000, more than sixty percent of the city were native Brits. By 2024, that had dropped to about a third. A statistic as evident as day when you walk the streets of London now.”
Author: It turns out that when DHH says “native Brits”, he’s specifically referring to white Brits. That’s why it’s “a statistic as clear as day when you walk the streets of London”: it’s his coy way of saying that too many of the 59% of Londoners born and raised in the UK are not white.
So if David means “white Brits”, why doesn’t he just say that? Why bother with the innuendo Because complaining that there aren’t enough white people sounds weird and racist! David bristles at that label, but there’s a reason he’s hiding behind euphemisms rather than just saying what he means. Most people don’t go around thinking “boy, all these Black and Asian people make this city so much worse.”
Well, u should watch Kurt Caz on youtube. Checkout London, Barcelona, Brussel. Then tell me that there isn’t a problem going on. Racism is not to be defended, but you can’t just call everything racism when countries are going to shit.
But is the reason these countries are “going to shit” race related? And what exactly does “going to shit” mean?
Since you referenced Kurt Caz, a notorious racist and xenophobe, I’m guessing your answer is yes and “less white”, but us adults in the room wonder about the real issues and their causes.
“Us adults” lol. Look at crime statistics. A certain minority causes a disproportionate amount of the crimes. Look I’m not white myself, and not all immigrants are bad. But lately EU has had a lot of problems because of refugees and migration. Housing shortages, increase in crime. It isn’t just black and white. There is more nuance to it than too far right and being racist, and being too far left and ignoring that there are problems caused.
As for Kurt I only know him walking around in favelas hahah, so whoops not the best example. But his videos do show the growing problems in cities
You are being fed BS. There are no crime statistics that show this once you actually look at the data in an unbiased way, but there are a lot of people which present the data in ways that are easy to misunderstand (on purpose).
Possibly, no one is immune to propaganda. And I might be completely off by linking it to increase in migrations etc. But it’s getting less appealing to be walking around alone at night in the major European Cities.
Why less appealing? There is no increase in crime or anything else that makes that less appealing (other than that a lot of small shops closed during the pandemic or are being priced out by real-estate speculators), you really need to stop believing the lies these social media influencers feed you.
Take the train to Brussel and let me know how you find it
Given you’re regurgitating bullshit that could be disproven by a child, yeah, you’re not an an adult.
Already DHH take it easy.
“You can’t call everything racism!”
looks inside
Blatant Racism
mfw europeans are hitlerite
Grouping a whole folk as hitlerite, that’s quite hypocritical good sir
you had no problem grouping a whole folk as problematic but suddenly when its about you now you have a problem with it?
No i dont and just because my opinions are stupid that shouldn’t mean that you can be hypocritical. I am stupid and know it, but you pointing out blame and doing it yourself is just funny
I am stupid and I know it
Then why are you expecting me to be any better if you don’t want to stop yourself here and begin the introspection?
Somehow you want people to read your arguments and change their opinion but when people ask you to do the same you just declare you are stupid and refuse to do the very thing that you expect others to do?
I don’t support the views of the endorsed projects, but surely a better reaction would be to suggest alternatives instead of just screaming for outright dismissal? I keep reading that “omarchy is just a bunch of scripts” and “hyperland is just one tiling window manager”. If that’s the case, there probably are better alternatives no? Or if it’s as easy as described why not fork it?
Complaining without an alternative or a solution is not productive, IMO
Complaining without an alternative or a solution is
not productivehow internet outrage operates, IMOFTFY
And yeah, Framework is one of the few manufacturers designing specifically for Linux compatibility and repairability, and omarchy/hyprland Devs are apparently shitty people. If you think they shouldn’t be associated, suggest a different project not run by (possibly) literal Nazis instead of foaming at the mouth and screaming incoherently… doesn’t seem that difficult.
This is the biggest issue with niche communities: purity tests. They can’t unite under one goal and have productive discussions. They are more focused on being correct (their interpretation of correct) and shutting out the incorrect than getting closer to a goal. Sometimes incorrect can be as little as choosing the wrong utility and other times it can be much bigger but they all spark the same amount of ire.
Y’know, knowing that you live in DACH, I can’t help but read this as sour grapes: if only you were allowed to be more fascist, but those mean old online communists just won’t let you!
I don’t think we should work with scum like DHH and vaxry just because some asshole lib might accuse us of purity tests
If “not working with people who are maniacs who want you dead” is a purity test I’m dusting off my Inquisition book
The entire ecosystem is full of purity tests. You don’t have a CoC? Must be a Nazi! Don’t use the right license? Probably a capitalist! You use systemd? Must be a Apple insider! You don’t use systemd? Fuck off you troglodyte. Oh my you said “no politics”? Definitely a lib! What’s that 🏳️🌈 flag? OMG what a woke commie.
Everyone draws the line somewhere else. Just because you draw it at DHH doesn’t mean you’re better.
TL;DR;
It’s weird to be upset at people for having personal boundaries/morals/ethics.
Using “purity test” like a pejorative, because using a more accurate term makes your argument sound bad, is a bad faith approach.
You say “purity tests” like it’s some sovcit term imbued with magical powers, like DEI or woke.
Headcanon replace it with “personal ethics and morals” and you might see how some of those arguments are really just people having boundaries.
An example of what i mean.
This is the biggest issue with niche communities: purity tests.
They can’t unite under one goal and have productive discussions. They are more focused on being correct (their interpretation of correct) and shutting out the incorrect than getting closer to a goal. Sometimes incorrect can be as little as choosing the wrong utility and other times it can be much bigger but they all spark the same amount of ire.
vs
This is the biggest issue with niche communities: personal ethics and morals.
They can’t unite under one goal and have productive discussions. They are more focused on being correct (their interpretation of correct) and shutting out the incorrect than getting closer to a goal. Sometimes incorrect can be as little as choosing the wrong utility and other times it can be much bigger but they all spark the same amount of ire.
See how the rest of that statement sounds without the bad faith, magic-word interpretation ?
I’m not expecting any good faith arguments in response, so don’t worry, this was a just-in-case kind of thing.
Great argument there. Replace what I say with whatever you think it says and go on from there. Should I just do the same with yours and we’ll see what kind of nonsense comes out? I’m sure that would be in your interpretation of “good faith”.
But don’t worry, I don’t expect a coherent response. This was a just-in-case kind of thing 😉
Great argument there. Replace what I say with whatever you think it says and go on from there.
I mean, yes… that is what i did… i explained as i did it.
Should I just do the same with yours and we’ll see what kind of nonsense comes out? I’m sure that would be in your interpretation of “good faith”.
Was this a preface to actually doing this? is there a part of the text missing ?
Is it a purity test to not financially support trans people being harassed by Hyprland mods? To not support a figure who supports ethnic cleaning in England?
It’s one thing for people to just not philosophically buy into people being trans, or even have opinions on trans sports, without mistreating other people, but active harassment shouldn’t be endorsed. And I don’t know how someone justifies ethnic cleansing.
Not everything is a purity test, and at this point, I feel that likening something to that just means there’s a good likelihood that the person hasn’t done their research or is dogwhistling. Either way, the Overton Window has now moved so far right that people don’t blink an eye at calling it “purity testing” to expect an organization not to financially support openly white supremacists.
Yep, here we go. I’m a nazi now 🙄 This is exactly how you edge people out. You’re just the another flavor of “everything I don’t like is wOkE” but instead “everything I don’t like jNaZi!”.
Nobody’s in the middle. There’s no nuance. You’re either on my side or you’re an enemy. Life’s just that simple.
I firmly believe there are ways of being a centrist without being a Nazi. Hell, I believe you can be a pre-Trump-era Republican without being a Nazi. But there are also fascists who self-identify in these factions, and they benefit from the smokescreen of the “Everyone I don’t like is a Nazi” fallacy of argument. There is nuance. I can’t help but feel that you’re projecting.
Ethnic cleansing and its supporters are definitionally fascists though, and I don’t believe organizations should support those people. And David Heinemeier Hansson, like the Nazis, is a fascist. And I find it suspect and disturbing that people are referring to that as purity-testing.
I firmly believe there are ways of being a centrist without being a Nazi.
If your default is equating “centrist” to “nazi”, then I wonder what kind of experiences you had but it’s so far from mine that it’s pointless to continue this.
Not my default, but okay, you’re clearly bad faith. I’m done. Goodbye.
Yep, here we go. I’m a nazi now 🙄 This is exactly how you edge people out.
“You don’t agree with me? Must be a Nazi” / “You don’t agree with me? Must be woke”
👍
Meanwhile in reality:
“Why are all these people calling me a nazi, I just think nazi’s should receive funding is all!”+
👍
being antifascist could only ever be “polarizing” if the person getting offended is an anti-antifascist aka a Nazi
I think it depends very much on what you think is fascism.
Lemmy users sometimes think using harch language is “fascism” because they are young and dont know what real fascism was like.
That being said, I havent read about what the Hyprland devs have been saying or doing, so sure, maybe they are bad people. I will go read about it now.
Edit: I looked into it and its not fascism, as usual. It seems to be the usual stuff that is being called fascism when its not. Its all about how they moderate their forum and how they talk to people there. This is not fascism. Treating people rudely is not fascism. Making bad jokes is not fascism either.
They may be dousches but we wont have another Stalin on our hands from this direction, dont worry. :)
Hitler.
Stalin, for what he was, wasn’t fascist.
FW is giving an openly racist and fascist person money for a project
That’s what people care about. Not the moderation behavior of the project
Yeah but like I wrote, the definition of racist and fascist here is probably very stretched into silly levels. As usual on Lemmy and I guess other social media.
bro is literally writing great replacement theory garbage on his blog 😂
“Probably very stretched.” “I guess”
Why not support right-wing goons as a default position when reading takes time and effort? Umberto who?Just read the blog of DHH. It’s not stretched at all
Politics in my [insert literally fuckin anything]? It’s more likely than you think!
everything is political. anyone who says different is shitting themselves or selling you something.
That was literally the point lol
The problem here isn’t that Framework failed to keep track of the ideology espoused by every major developer on the projects they contributed to or endorsed, which, to be honest, isn’t something I’d expect of them. The problem (as usual for a corporation) is how they handled complaints. Trying to sweep stuff under the rug in the Internet age just results in someone setting the rug on fire. If instead, Framework’s response had been “We’re sorry, we didn’t know, we won’t give money or free advertising to any projects this guy is involved with from now on,” the whole mess would have died down by now except for a few people grumbling about how they should do more research before sending money out.
not “polarizing”. nazis are unacceptable for all reasonable people, right?
hate this manipulative language.
I’m amazed that they haven’t backtracked this yet. They’re just cool losing all those customers.
Theyre not gonna, look at all the comments itt that are ok with giving money to transphobes
It irks me to no end that both here and in the framework community forum people will try to downplay just how awful DHH and their ilk are.
They’ll never say that they don’t mind supporting someone who’s transphobic, or a nationalist, or a racist. Instead they’ll just say that you need to separate the art from the artist, or that you’re just engaging in “purity tests” or whatever other bullshit reason they can throw to absolve themselves from supporting objectively shitty people.
In the current political environment, it’s profitable to have right-wing extremists alignments and they’re aren’t sigh, or even happy to be part of it.
If the sales fall, there would have been or will be a “southpark-sorry.gif”
Funny how that just keeps on happening?! Why can’t we have left-wing extremism ever be profitable 😤
Because if you’re out there grifting people for monetary gain, you’re not really a leftist.
Because left wing extremism is anti-capitalist.
Left-wing podcasts churn huge amounts of money, Chapo Trapo House, Cool Zone Media etc… Individuals like Ibrahim X Kendi and the BLM project grafted away millions of dollars to buy mansions and luxury office space with do-nothing employees.
Left-wing has no issue making money. Rubes come in all political affiliations.
None of those are extremist though 😔
idk, looking at twitter, there seems to be a pretty good number of fascist techbros who are congratulating framework on this
i guess framework doesn’t mind the change in audience…
I mean, its twitter. Its almost entirely fascist tech bros there.
Bots pretending to be tech bros*
Twitter is basically millions of Groks in a trenchcoat at this point.
I don’t believe any kind of analysis that depends on measuring sentiment on social media given that it’s trivially easy to run hundreds or thousands of accounts on a 5 year old graphics card and some vibe coding.
Imagine the downfall of framework being the donations made to some obscure (tankie?) dev that a part of the community does not agree with. This toxic “holier than thou” attitude of the linux community leads to fragmentation and will be the doom of the linux phone project too, I swear. Someone will find an obscure package developed by an asshole/tankie/nazi/whatever and will rage about how the project is now immoral because the project devs support it and insist on a public boycott. Why do some people seem to be unable to separate the software from the developer? Framework or the software dev is not your friend. Is their hardware/software decent and open? Cool, then keep using it, tankie devs be damned, or at least fork it and make your own morally pure version. But this endless bickering over what devs support will lead to nothing good.
Letting shit slide will lead to nothing good.
completely ignores that its about the donations and not “just” using their software.
Deleted by author
Man, humans are cooked when there’s still so many idiots like you who think “assholes who specifically think certain people aren’t people / should live” is just normal assholery.
Yeah, I’m sure that’ll definitely lead to a peaceful path, bub.
I just fucking hate libinput and wish we had better driver options. I am about to switch back to Gnome from Hyperland just because I need to not tab 400 times to get to a field with no mouse or touchpad. God what a shit show.
Nah
People have opinions. More news at 11
The opinion being debated: “is transphobia bad?”
Can you link me to the transphobia? Is it this? https://world.hey.com/dhh/bad-therapy-08849dc9
Yes obviously lol
It’s not obvious to me. Which bit is transphobic exactly?
I’d assume the transphobic part is where DHH goes to bat for Shrier, who is transphobic, and he’s glad that she’s overcome the “censorship mob”. Oh and also the part where he recommends people read said transphobic author’s book.
Do you need to be spoonfed any more? The blog post isn’t that long.
It was a yellow flag when Framework invested heavily into an affordable non-repairable, non-upgradable desktop designed for AI developers. “Let them make money,” they said, as Framework positioned itself as a Trojan Horse to the ubiquitization of harmful AI.
This was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. I was saving up for a Framework 16, but I’ll just stick with my Thinkpad and get the next Steam Deck for gaming. It’s really a shame that such an important company would support transphobia and white supremacy, not just rhetorically but financially, as Hyperland gets ₤600 a month from them and DHH gets ₤24,000 via Rails.
I know this will be a controversial take since Framework is so beloved, but that is just how I personally will choose to spend my money.
I have a similar experience. I was saving up for a framework 13 for a general more ethical option, but that AI mini PC was extremely disappointing and got me more radicalized into free (libre) software as a consequence. Could you clarify the white supremacy and transphobia? I usually concern myself with strictly free software, so I’m unaware of such controversies.
Hyprland is the project associated with Transphobia. To put it delicately, the original developer was so cringe to the point that others didn’t want to work on the project.
DHH is the developer who is associated with White Supremacy, as he started making overtly white suprematist comments on social media.
I agree with your conclusion and I abhor Framework promoting either of these two projects.
But the APU in the desktop has, I suspect, a real reason for having nonreplaceable RAM. If I understand correctly, they can’t achieve 8000 mt/s memory speed or the wider memory bus with replaceable RAM. And since that memory is shared with the GPU, that speed becomes important for gaming or other GPU tasks. Hence why 6400 mt/s seems to be the max memory speed for a lot of the zen5 desktop chips, at least in prebuilts
I have that chip in my laptop (the “AI” Max Pro 395+) and I don’t ever use it for LLM shit. It’s a very performant and efficient CPU, and shockingly good for gaming too.
So even tho I hate the “ai” branding it’s actually a very very good CPU and GPU
What I’m hearing is that Framework chose power over user-replaceability, and that really seems to go against their mission. The specs sheet on the Framework Desktop is something par for the course with another company.
I don’t doubt that the Desktop is good for LLMs and gaming, but that’s beside the point for me personally.
Framework tried to design a version that worked with SODIMM with AMD but the performance was seriously hampered, and the plan was dropped.
yeah, like… They genuinely tried.
I got several beefs with framework, but this isn’t one of them.
Kindof amusing to see people call “purity testing” on people who object to someone who’s quoted as being upset by checks notes a lack racial or ethnic purity.
[Sarcasm] C’mon everyone, can’t we just get along and hold hands with racists and people who consider us subhuman? As long as what they’re doing doesn’t bother me personally you’re all overreacting and fragmenting this
nazi barcommunity!It’s called the tolerance of intolerance.
I don’t even understand what the article said! Bro we are cooked so bad with politics.
Yeah, cause people like you want to pretend that everything isn’t political.
Enjoy your modular laptop with the Nazi takeover. So glad you’re above it all. Tell us the aromatic profile of your flatulence again.
Relax men! I put limit on politics and where I use it, because on the end I will have no life.
