You’ve clearly never managed an environment of even a dozen users.
Are you going to pay to develop apps for Linux, such as CAD, which is effectively non-existant in Linux?
Are you going to pay for the trillions of lost hours of productivity and training required for end users?
Are you going to re-write the millions of excel spreadsheets that simply won’t work in Open Office, or all the systems that import/export to excel via automation?
We lose thousands of hours a year just from changes within apps, let alone replacing the entire OS (without even considering which distro, which shell, what tools will be included, how will you manage deployments, etc, etc).
Go manage an Enterprise, then you can talk about where to use Linux. It ain’t the desktop, that’s for sure. Even better, just go to an SMB where they really don’t like to pay for you to “figure things out” - they expect IT to be a black box that “just works” for them, the way they expect it to work - with Windows, Since anyone they hire will have experience.
This “just go Linux” thing would be laughable, if it weren’t so blindingly ignorant of how business works (I’ve been hearing “Year of Linux Desktop” since 1998…they never mention which distro, which shell).
My standard response to “just go Linux” :
I keep having to say this, as much as I like Linux for certain things, as a desktop it’s still no competition to Windows, even with this awful shit going on.
As some background - I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I’d stuck with Cobol). I had my first UNIX class in about 1990.
I run a Mint laptop (mostly for “fun”, which it isn’t). Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won’t even boot. Windows would never do this, unless you went out of your way to config power management to kill the battery (even then, to really kill it you have to boot to BIOS and let it sit, Windows will not let a battery get to zero).
There no way even possible via the GUI in Mint to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions - stuff that has multiple settings and good defaults in Windows.
There are many reasons why Linux doesn’t compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one.
Now let’s look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that’s just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. The devs of open office refuse to support tables, saying “you should manage data in a proper database app”. No, I’m not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That’s just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn’t realistically shareable with other people. I do this several times a day in excel.
Now there’s that print monitor that’s on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? In the 21st century?
Networking… Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn’t say “save creds”? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. Smh.
Oh, you have a wireless Logitech mouse? Linux won’t even recognize it. You have to search for a solution and go find a download that makes it work. My brand new wireless mouse works on any version of windows since 2000, at the least, and would probably work on Win95.
Someone else said it better than me:
Every time I’ve installed Linux as my main OS (many, many times since I was younger), it gets to an eventual point where every single thing I want to do requires googling around to figure out problems. While it’s gotten much better, I always ended up reinstalling Windows or using my work Mac. Like one day I turn it on and the monitor doesn’t look right. So I installed twenty things, run some arbitrary collection of commands, and it works… only it doesn’t save my preferences.
So then I need to dig into .bashrc or .bash_profile (is bashrc even running? Hey let me investigate that first for 45 minutes) and get the command to run automatically… but that doesn’t work, so now I can’t boot… so I have to research (on my phone now, since the machine deathscreens me once the OS tries to load) how to fix that… then I am writing config lines for my specific monitor so it can access the native resolution… wait, does the config delimit by spaces, or by tabs?? anyway, it’s been four hours, it’s 3:00am and I’m like Bryan Cranston in that clip from Malcolm in the Middle where he has a car engine up in the air all because he tried to change a lightbulb.
And then I get a new monitor, and it happens all damn over again. Oh shit, I got a new mouse too, and the drivers aren’t supported - great! I finally made it to Friday night and now that I have 12 minutes away from my insane 16 month old, I can’t wait to search for some drivers so I can get the cursor acceleration disabled. Or enabled. Or configured? What was I even trying to do again? What led me to this?
I just can’t do it anymore. People who understand it more than I will downvote and call me an idiot, but you can all kiss my ass because I refuse to do the computing equivalent of building a radio out of coconuts on a deserted island of ancient Linux forum posts because I want to have Spotify open on startup EVERY time and not just one time. I have tried to get into Linux as a main dev environment since 1997 and I’ve loved/liked/loathed it, in that order, every single time.
I respect the shit out of the many people who are far, far smarter than me who a) built this stuff, and 2) spend their free time making Windows/Mac stuff work on a Linux environment, but the part of me who liked to experiment with Linux has been shot and killed and left to rot in a ditch along the interstate.
Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM’s on Linux (Proxmox) because that’s better than running Linux VM’s on a Windows server.
Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment.
Linux doesn’t even use a common shell (which is a good thing in it’s own way), and that’s a massive barrier for users.
If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would’ve had a chance to beat MS, even then it would’ve required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.
These are what MS did in the 1980’s to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.
All this without considering the systems management requirements of even an SMB with perhaps a dozen users (let alone an enterprise with tens of thousands).
I don’t have experience in IT, but 5/7 places I’ve been to supported multiple OSes, and the one thing I can definitely agree with is; that the cheaper places seem to hire clickops for their IT team and wonder why everything is so difficult.
We don’t need to replace every accountant’s Excel with LibreOffice overnight, but forcing your dev team to basically setup their own mini IT infra to get anything done is incredibly inefficient. I spend a few hours every week dealing with hanging explorer, crashing software, filesystem operations, buggy windows manager etc.
Lol, sigh.
You’ve clearly never managed an environment of even a dozen users.
Are you going to pay to develop apps for Linux, such as CAD, which is effectively non-existant in Linux?
Are you going to pay for the trillions of lost hours of productivity and training required for end users?
Are you going to re-write the millions of excel spreadsheets that simply won’t work in Open Office, or all the systems that import/export to excel via automation?
We lose thousands of hours a year just from changes within apps, let alone replacing the entire OS (without even considering which distro, which shell, what tools will be included, how will you manage deployments, etc, etc).
Go manage an Enterprise, then you can talk about where to use Linux. It ain’t the desktop, that’s for sure. Even better, just go to an SMB where they really don’t like to pay for you to “figure things out” - they expect IT to be a black box that “just works” for them, the way they expect it to work - with Windows, Since anyone they hire will have experience.
This “just go Linux” thing would be laughable, if it weren’t so blindingly ignorant of how business works (I’ve been hearing “Year of Linux Desktop” since 1998…they never mention which distro, which shell).
My standard response to “just go Linux” :
I keep having to say this, as much as I like Linux for certain things, as a desktop it’s still no competition to Windows, even with this awful shit going on.
As some background - I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I’d stuck with Cobol). I had my first UNIX class in about 1990.
I run a Mint laptop (mostly for “fun”, which it isn’t). Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won’t even boot. Windows would never do this, unless you went out of your way to config power management to kill the battery (even then, to really kill it you have to boot to BIOS and let it sit, Windows will not let a battery get to zero).
There no way even possible via the GUI in Mint to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions - stuff that has multiple settings and good defaults in Windows.
There are many reasons why Linux doesn’t compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one.
Now let’s look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that’s just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. The devs of open office refuse to support tables, saying “you should manage data in a proper database app”. No, I’m not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That’s just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn’t realistically shareable with other people. I do this several times a day in excel.
Now there’s that print monitor that’s on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? In the 21st century?
Networking… Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn’t say “save creds”? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. Smh.
Oh, you have a wireless Logitech mouse? Linux won’t even recognize it. You have to search for a solution and go find a download that makes it work. My brand new wireless mouse works on any version of windows since 2000, at the least, and would probably work on Win95.
Someone else said it better than me:
Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM’s on Linux (Proxmox) because that’s better than running Linux VM’s on a Windows server.
Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment.
Linux doesn’t even use a common shell (which is a good thing in it’s own way), and that’s a massive barrier for users.
If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would’ve had a chance to beat MS, even then it would’ve required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.
These are what MS did in the 1980’s to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.
All this without considering the systems management requirements of even an SMB with perhaps a dozen users (let alone an enterprise with tens of thousands).
I don’t have experience in IT, but 5/7 places I’ve been to supported multiple OSes, and the one thing I can definitely agree with is; that the cheaper places seem to hire clickops for their IT team and wonder why everything is so difficult.
We don’t need to replace every accountant’s Excel with LibreOffice overnight, but forcing your dev team to basically setup their own mini IT infra to get anything done is incredibly inefficient. I spend a few hours every week dealing with hanging explorer, crashing software, filesystem operations, buggy windows manager etc.