The two biggest ways are to get organized, like joining The Party for Socialism and Liberation or Freedom Road Socialist Organization, or an org more local to you or better aligns with your views. The other biggest part is reading theory! A good primer is Blackshirts and Reds. It will help contextualize what fascism is, what causes it, and how to stop it. I can offer a good introductory reading list regarding Marxism if you’d like, but this is a good starting point.
I made a longer, 6 point list of what is to be done, but these are the most important bullet points.
What are these groups’ position on voting for 3rd party candidates in the US’s “first past the post” climate? Genuinely asking. I’m all for organizing and educating, but until we can end the correct 2-party system, these candidates are in no way viable.
Both are revolutionary parties, they have the same stance Marx and Engels did:
that workers’ candidates are nominated everywhere in opposition to bourgeois-democratic candidates. As far as possible they should be League members and their election should be pursued by all possible means. Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled.
Straight from Marx and Engels themselves.
The US’ First Past the Post climate will never leave without struggle and resistance, both parties cement it because they benefit from it. Revolution is necessary. Voting can’t get us there. I recommend reading Reform or Revolution and The State and Revolution for why reform is pretty much impossible and revolution is necessary.
Again, I appreciate the information but “revolution” is a nebulous term. What’s the realistic plan to get there?
Voting can’t get us there.
I’d believe that if we had enough participation. Look at the number of eligible voters, then look at the margins on every single candidate and issue. If enough people had voted, we would have literally put fascism behind us and had election reform. First past the post would be a distant memory. Which again, is the absolutely required first step before 3rd-party candidates become viable in the US.
Voting works if enough people vote. But we do have the numbers! I realize getting people to participate is the harder problem than just saying an ideology will solve everything, but that’s the world we live in. Any realistic plan for revolution must at least include voting as long as voting is still an effective part of progress.
Are you asking how do we organize for revolution? How do we conduct it? How do we know it’s fairly inevitable, and needs to be prepared for? All have different readings I can recommend, and questions I can answer.
One thing I do think is just fantasy is the idea that if “enough people” voted we could have all the things you listed. People don’t pick policy, politicians do, and the politicians we are allowed to pick from are intentionally limited to pro-status quo individuals.
Secondly, you make a critical misunderstanding of fascism. Fascism is Capitalism in decay, it can’t be voted out. It isn’t an ideology to adopt, but something that rises with deterioration of Capitalism and Imperialism. I recommend reading at least the first chapter of Blackshirts and Reds to truly understand what fascism is, who it serves, why it rises, and how to banish it forever.
I realize getting people to participate is the harder problem than just saying an ideology will solve everything, but that’s the world we live in.
I am not saying “an ideology will solve everything.” I am saying that voting is ineffective at protecting working class interests, and explaining why that is. I am additionally telling you what is necessary instead of hoping voting will fix anything, as we just saw, voting failed. I am sorry, I know that voting is easier than building up Dual Power, organizing, reading theory, correctly analyzing the working class movements, educating the masses, and more, but I maintain that this is the path forward.
Any realistic plan for revolution must at least include voting as long as voting is still an effective part of progress.
See, voting evidently isn’t an effective part of progress, which is why I recommended the two most famous and revered works on the question of reform or revolution. Participation in bourgeois elections is good, but won’t be anywhere close to the main path of success, it is a supplemental part of the whole.
“Without revolutionary theory there can be no revolutionary movement.”
Yeah no thank you. Yeah lets all join these groups so that it will make easier for them to find us when they come for us.
DON’T JOIN ANY GROUP AND ESPECIALLY ONES THAT ARE ORGANIZING ON SOCIAL MEDIA LIKE LEMMY.
Only kind of ways we should organize should not include our phones and should hold no fucking lists.
We are about to live in a mega (nazi) government. For now I am going hide and wait. Luckily for me I am white maie. My dad gave me a Trump hate that had planned on burning instead going just keep it just in case. My boys are going play straight and we going hold out.
I want a fight I want the largest strike in American history. Instead every posting memes and whining online. Or trying to find a way out. Fuck that we can’t give in. But at same time can’t be joining any groups who will be keeping lists.
When Project 2025 goes in full effect they will be coming for those groups. All I can say is arm up and be ready to fight.
This is an utterly contradictory stance to hold. If we do not organize, and can only do so in person, then that means you will NOT have the largest strike in US history. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Secondly, these orgs have internal organization networks, they don’t communicate or organize on Social Media beyond recruiting.
Thirdly, it is wildly privledged to sacrifice people as a white man just because you will not personally be effected, even going to the length of signaling support for Trump. This directly harms queer people, POC, women, and more, and they will not organize with you if you are willing to watch them get attacked. Cede no ground, use your privledge to protect others, not watch them suffer.
You desparately need to read theory and get organized, just like I called for.
My sons are gay but not joining other group. I probably already on many list. Sorry to inform you. You couldn’t organize a popcorn stand right now using social media much less the kind of strike we need.
And I never said I stand by. Hence get armed part. I am ready to fight. But most of yall complaining refuse to do so. Yall still think you can vote and organize your way out of what is coming.
I wonder did the left try that when Hitler was coming up in power? How that work out for them.
I don’t know who you think you’re talking to, but I have posted what I believe others need to do in several other places. I’ll post it below. I argue for getting strapped and organizing for revolution, because voting doesn’t help shit. You’re arguing for hiding and watching queer people, women, and POC getting thrown into the meatgrinder while you coast on privledge.
Here’s what the Leftists were doing: actively fighting Hitler, hence why the Communists were the first to be killed off in Nazi Germany.
Despair is typical of those who do not understand the causes of evil, see no way out, and are incapable of struggle.
-Vladimir Lenin
There is hope! It isn’t easy, it isn’t fun, but if we can know our circumstances, we can know our way out of them, and if we know our way out, we can get out.
Get organized. Join a Leftist org, find solidarity with fellow comrades, and protect each other. The Dems will not save you, it is up to the Workers to protect themselves. The Party for Socialism and Liberation and Freedom Road Socialist Organization both organize year round, every year, because the battle for progress is a constant struggle, not a single election. See if there is a chapter near you, or start one! Or, see if there’s an org you like more near you and join it, the point is that organizing is the best thing any leftist can do.
Read theory. A good primer is Blackshirts and Reds. It will help contextualize what fascism is, what causes it, and how to stop it. I can offer a good introductory reading list regarding Marxism if you’d like, but this is a good starting point.
Aggressively combat white supremacy, misogyny, queerphobia, and other attacks on marginalized communities. Cede no ground.
Be more industrious, and self-sufficient. Take up gardening, home repair, tinkering. It is through practice that you elevate your problem-solving capabilities. Not only will you improve your skill at one subject, but your general problem-solving muscles get strengthened as well. Theory guides practice, which sharpens theory to be reapplied to better practice.
Learn self-defense. Get armed, if practical. Be ready to protect yourself and others. The Democrats will not save us, we must save each other.
Be persistent. If you feel like a single water driplet against a mountain, think of the Grand Canyon. Oh, how our efforts pile up! With consistency, every rock, boulder, even mountain, can be drilled through with nothing but steady and persistent water droplets.
I have a feeling that you are desperate to get us all to sign your fucking list. You might even be working for enemy. You keep sharing those groups.
And you didn’t read what I wrote. AGAIN NEVER SAID I STAND BY. BUT YOU CAN FUCK OFF WITH THOSE GROUPS. Not joining so stop inviting people. You will get more people killed then I.
Even by your own admission that leftist and communists were killed first. And here you are working hard to gather that list. Get fucked.
You said you are keeping a MAGA hat to protect yourself, you aren’t unclear about your intentions to do nothing. You say you want to organize, but you refuse to organize. It’s all performative nonsense.
Again, I have explicitly stated that voting will not prevent fascism, we must organize against it, and you are pretending I am advocating for voting, rather than organizing. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Yes, Leftists were targeted first. That means we need to stick together and organize, not simply accept defeat and going along with the fascism.
Yeah organizing in plain site. Hello Trump FBI, and CIA this post here. Yeah organizing on social media. Might as well flash big fucking neon sign for all to see.
When us true revolutionary organizie won’t be posting about it on social media goodbye. Don’t respond to me anymore.
I told you, both the orgs I listed don’t organize on social media. Keep being performative and launching a 3 person protracted war from the mountains against your local Wal-Mart, I guess. Actual leftists have learned from successful revolutionaries that organizing must be done public-facing, with secure internal communication.
disobey, by waiting around with a trump hat in hand, hoping they don’t come for you and your family? seems not much like disobeying at all, to me, and in fact seems like quite the opposite.
The two biggest ways are to get organized, like joining The Party for Socialism and Liberation or Freedom Road Socialist Organization, or an org more local to you or better aligns with your views. The other biggest part is reading theory! A good primer is Blackshirts and Reds. It will help contextualize what fascism is, what causes it, and how to stop it. I can offer a good introductory reading list regarding Marxism if you’d like, but this is a good starting point.
I made a longer, 6 point list of what is to be done, but these are the most important bullet points.
What are these groups’ position on voting for 3rd party candidates in the US’s “first past the post” climate? Genuinely asking. I’m all for organizing and educating, but until we can end the correct 2-party system, these candidates are in no way viable.
Both are revolutionary parties, they have the same stance Marx and Engels did:
Straight from Marx and Engels themselves.
The US’ First Past the Post climate will never leave without struggle and resistance, both parties cement it because they benefit from it. Revolution is necessary. Voting can’t get us there. I recommend reading Reform or Revolution and The State and Revolution for why reform is pretty much impossible and revolution is necessary.
Again, I appreciate the information but “revolution” is a nebulous term. What’s the realistic plan to get there?
I’d believe that if we had enough participation. Look at the number of eligible voters, then look at the margins on every single candidate and issue. If enough people had voted, we would have literally put fascism behind us and had election reform. First past the post would be a distant memory. Which again, is the absolutely required first step before 3rd-party candidates become viable in the US.
Voting works if enough people vote. But we do have the numbers! I realize getting people to participate is the harder problem than just saying an ideology will solve everything, but that’s the world we live in. Any realistic plan for revolution must at least include voting as long as voting is still an effective part of progress.
Are you asking how do we organize for revolution? How do we conduct it? How do we know it’s fairly inevitable, and needs to be prepared for? All have different readings I can recommend, and questions I can answer.
One thing I do think is just fantasy is the idea that if “enough people” voted we could have all the things you listed. People don’t pick policy, politicians do, and the politicians we are allowed to pick from are intentionally limited to pro-status quo individuals.
Secondly, you make a critical misunderstanding of fascism. Fascism is Capitalism in decay, it can’t be voted out. It isn’t an ideology to adopt, but something that rises with deterioration of Capitalism and Imperialism. I recommend reading at least the first chapter of Blackshirts and Reds to truly understand what fascism is, who it serves, why it rises, and how to banish it forever.
I am not saying “an ideology will solve everything.” I am saying that voting is ineffective at protecting working class interests, and explaining why that is. I am additionally telling you what is necessary instead of hoping voting will fix anything, as we just saw, voting failed. I am sorry, I know that voting is easier than building up Dual Power, organizing, reading theory, correctly analyzing the working class movements, educating the masses, and more, but I maintain that this is the path forward.
See, voting evidently isn’t an effective part of progress, which is why I recommended the two most famous and revered works on the question of reform or revolution. Participation in bourgeois elections is good, but won’t be anywhere close to the main path of success, it is a supplemental part of the whole.
“Without revolutionary theory there can be no revolutionary movement.”
Yeah no thank you. Yeah lets all join these groups so that it will make easier for them to find us when they come for us.
DON’T JOIN ANY GROUP AND ESPECIALLY ONES THAT ARE ORGANIZING ON SOCIAL MEDIA LIKE LEMMY.
Only kind of ways we should organize should not include our phones and should hold no fucking lists.
We are about to live in a mega (nazi) government. For now I am going hide and wait. Luckily for me I am white maie. My dad gave me a Trump hate that had planned on burning instead going just keep it just in case. My boys are going play straight and we going hold out.
I want a fight I want the largest strike in American history. Instead every posting memes and whining online. Or trying to find a way out. Fuck that we can’t give in. But at same time can’t be joining any groups who will be keeping lists.
When Project 2025 goes in full effect they will be coming for those groups. All I can say is arm up and be ready to fight.
This is an utterly contradictory stance to hold. If we do not organize, and can only do so in person, then that means you will NOT have the largest strike in US history. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Secondly, these orgs have internal organization networks, they don’t communicate or organize on Social Media beyond recruiting.
Thirdly, it is wildly privledged to sacrifice people as a white man just because you will not personally be effected, even going to the length of signaling support for Trump. This directly harms queer people, POC, women, and more, and they will not organize with you if you are willing to watch them get attacked. Cede no ground, use your privledge to protect others, not watch them suffer.
You desparately need to read theory and get organized, just like I called for.
My sons are gay but not joining other group. I probably already on many list. Sorry to inform you. You couldn’t organize a popcorn stand right now using social media much less the kind of strike we need.
And I never said I stand by. Hence get armed part. I am ready to fight. But most of yall complaining refuse to do so. Yall still think you can vote and organize your way out of what is coming.
I wonder did the left try that when Hitler was coming up in power? How that work out for them.
I don’t know who you think you’re talking to, but I have posted what I believe others need to do in several other places. I’ll post it below. I argue for getting strapped and organizing for revolution, because voting doesn’t help shit. You’re arguing for hiding and watching queer people, women, and POC getting thrown into the meatgrinder while you coast on privledge.
Here’s what the Leftists were doing: actively fighting Hitler, hence why the Communists were the first to be killed off in Nazi Germany.
-Vladimir Lenin
There is hope! It isn’t easy, it isn’t fun, but if we can know our circumstances, we can know our way out of them, and if we know our way out, we can get out.
Get organized. Join a Leftist org, find solidarity with fellow comrades, and protect each other. The Dems will not save you, it is up to the Workers to protect themselves. The Party for Socialism and Liberation and Freedom Road Socialist Organization both organize year round, every year, because the battle for progress is a constant struggle, not a single election. See if there is a chapter near you, or start one! Or, see if there’s an org you like more near you and join it, the point is that organizing is the best thing any leftist can do.
Read theory. A good primer is Blackshirts and Reds. It will help contextualize what fascism is, what causes it, and how to stop it. I can offer a good introductory reading list regarding Marxism if you’d like, but this is a good starting point.
Aggressively combat white supremacy, misogyny, queerphobia, and other attacks on marginalized communities. Cede no ground.
Be more industrious, and self-sufficient. Take up gardening, home repair, tinkering. It is through practice that you elevate your problem-solving capabilities. Not only will you improve your skill at one subject, but your general problem-solving muscles get strengthened as well. Theory guides practice, which sharpens theory to be reapplied to better practice.
Learn self-defense. Get armed, if practical. Be ready to protect yourself and others. The Democrats will not save us, we must save each other.
Be persistent. If you feel like a single water driplet against a mountain, think of the Grand Canyon. Oh, how our efforts pile up! With consistency, every rock, boulder, even mountain, can be drilled through with nothing but steady and persistent water droplets.
I have a feeling that you are desperate to get us all to sign your fucking list. You might even be working for enemy. You keep sharing those groups. And you didn’t read what I wrote. AGAIN NEVER SAID I STAND BY. BUT YOU CAN FUCK OFF WITH THOSE GROUPS. Not joining so stop inviting people. You will get more people killed then I.
Even by your own admission that leftist and communists were killed first. And here you are working hard to gather that list. Get fucked.
Fuck your lists.
You said you are keeping a MAGA hat to protect yourself, you aren’t unclear about your intentions to do nothing. You say you want to organize, but you refuse to organize. It’s all performative nonsense.
Again, I have explicitly stated that voting will not prevent fascism, we must organize against it, and you are pretending I am advocating for voting, rather than organizing. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Yes, Leftists were targeted first. That means we need to stick together and organize, not simply accept defeat and going along with the fascism.
Yeah organizing in plain site. Hello Trump FBI, and CIA this post here. Yeah organizing on social media. Might as well flash big fucking neon sign for all to see.
When us true revolutionary organizie won’t be posting about it on social media goodbye. Don’t respond to me anymore.
I told you, both the orgs I listed don’t organize on social media. Keep being performative and launching a 3 person protracted war from the mountains against your local Wal-Mart, I guess. Actual leftists have learned from successful revolutionaries that organizing must be done public-facing, with secure internal communication.
disobey, by waiting around with a trump hat in hand, hoping they don’t come for you and your family? seems not much like disobeying at all, to me, and in fact seems like quite the opposite.