cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/22892955
The Prius Prime is a dual fuel vehicle, able to run 100% on Electric, or 100% on gasoline, or a computerized blend in-between. This presents me a great opportunity to be able to do a direct comparison with the same car of an EV engine vs an ICE engine.
Toyota computer claims 3.2mi-per-kwhr.
Kill-a-watt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_A_Watt) claims 2.2mi-per-kwhr.
Additional 1.5% losses should be assumed in the wires if you wish. (120V drops down to 118V during charging, meaning 2V of the energy was lost due to the resistance of my home’s wires).
Level 1 charger at home (known to be less efficient).
Toyota computer claims 53miles-per-gallon (American Gallon).
I have not independently verified the gallon usage of my car.
295 miles driven total, sometimes EV, sometimes Gasoline, sometimes both.
30F to 40F (-1C to 4.5C) in my area this past week.
Winter-blend fuel.
12.5miles per $electricity-dollar (17.1c / kw-hr home charging costs)
17.1 miles per $gasoline-dollar ($3.10 per gallon last fillup).
If anyone has questions about my tests. The main takeaway is that L1 charging is so low in efficiency that gasoline in my area is cheaper than electricity. Obviously the price of gasoline and electricity varies significantly area-to-area, so feel free to use my numbers to calculate / simulate the costs in your area.
There is also substantial losses of efficiency due to cold weather, that is well acknowledged by the EV community. The Prius Prime (and most other EVs) will turn on a heater to keep the battery conditioned in the winter, spending precious electricity on battery-conditioning rather than miles. Gasoline engines do not have this problem and remain as efficient in the winter.
I originally wrote this post for /c/cars, but I feel like EVs come up often enough here on /c/technology that maybe you all would be interested in my tests as well.
Ok, so you look for other test data, then right? You aren’t the only person with that car who has tested it, surely. You aggregate that data, you work off an average, and if it’s almost or exactly what the manufacturer is claiming, then you are good. If it’s quite different than that claim, then you know the data is unreliable, and therefore, you dont draw conclusions based on that data.
You dont need to do 4 hours of testing yourself. If there is other data out there, you can take an average.
Or actually, maybe you should do 4 hours of testing before submitting your results. Maybe that’s just being thorough. Maybe it’s not actually that long and can be done as a part of your normal driving.
And hang on, you said in your original post that liquid fuel engines dont have the same problem of being affected by weather. So why are you now claiming the temperature changing is going to affect your fuel results?
And just to address this, you are rightz you dont owe me or that person any answers, assuming that we dont make a valid point. You made the claim in the begining based on your testing these are the results, that person disputed your results, based on faulty input, so now you do have to address this and come back with more rigorous testing and results to make a claim that gas is cheaper than electric (in your area)
otherwise, what use is your data? It doesnt help people choose the right car if you cant verify the accuracy of the data and it doesnt say much about the peraon carrying out the tests if they freak out the moment they are challenged on their results.
I am serious about what i am about to say.
Dont respond to me. Come back in a week when you have had long enough away from this. I bet you won’t even be bothered to respond by then. This won’t matter then. That person won’t matter then. You are just angry and are getting worked up.
Yes. But you know who owes me something? The other guy owes me to take back his baseless bias accusations.
Come back in a day, week, month or year. It won’t be taken back.
You are issuing challenges to the wrong guy. I have nothing more to give you or prove to anyone here. (Well, I’ll do a gasoline test eventually because I truly am curious. But it has to wait until I’m personally got the time for it).
Why should I give a shit about that? I’m not like a professional journalist with a reputation to uphold. Lol.
Again. They aren’t baseless. He has rightfully stated that the data you based your whole post on is likely wrong. Meaning your conclusion is likely wrong. You aren’t able to address this as you say you are too busy to carry out the test.
You want them to take it back. Do so.e research, and prove them wrong. Otherwise, stop shouting.
All due respect my dude. Have a good day. Dont let this ruin it ( im sure it wont)
BTW: Seriously, you seem naive to me so let me give you a serious protip.
If someone thinks you are biased on the internet, and you owe them nothing (not like a close friend or a family or something), you STOP TALKING WITH THEM BECAUSE ITS A WASTE OF TIME. And I’ve found that shouting, and direct insults, is the fastest way to make it clear that I’m ending the discussion.
Again: don’t waste your time trying to prove yourself against baseless accusations on internet. Its not worth the hassle. If you find yourself doing that, you are the one who will get stressed out in the long term.
So I reject your advice and instead replace it with the exact opposite. Get angry. Shout, end the discussion. Then move on with your life. The discussion has been blown up, so its easier to move on. Don’t lol “do research” on behalf of other people who don’t give two shits about you and drag on the unnecessary discussion for days. They never were going to believe you anyway, because they thought you were biased from the start.
Take your arrogance and shove it up your butt mate.
You can say its baseless as much as you want. It wont make it true. They called you out. You didnt like it. And like a little baby you cried and kicked off on them.
Like i said in my response to your other reply. The real world mpg is closer to 30-42mpg on pure fuel according to research i have done.
So your numbers are duff. And so is your attitude.
You know what would solve all of this?
I have an alternative plan. How about YOU run a 200 mile test? Go rent a Prius or borrow one from a friend. Drive it 200 miles in the 30F winter cold and tell me how many gallons were used.
I’ll wait. A day, a week, a month, a year. Go put your actions where your mouth is.
Oh, you won’t do it? What about the other guy? Uh huh. You expect me to do it?
Well there’s the rub, ain’t it? I guess I just accept that I’m biased then.
With what evidence? Please, I seem to have missed it.
I dont own a prius prime. Bit more difficult for me to test it. However after some research i can see many people claim on pure fuel they see mpg ranging for 30-42 mpg.
Only when combined with electric do they see 50mpg and above.
So based on this i would say your numbers are wrong.
And this guy in this thread says his Prius gets 45mpg to 63mpg, depending on conditions: https://lemmy.world/comment/13866193
Oh wait, my numbers say 53mpg. American gallons and American miles.
Now unless you have done a test yourself, bugger the fuck off. I’m not interested in Internet rumors, I’m interested in the Truth. I don’t know how the fuck your numbers are so far away from reality but that’s your problem.
The fact remains that I have hard numbers and have run the tests. You haven’t.
You haven’t run fuel tests. That was the whole point of the argument.
Ok soni saw 30 to 42 you saw 45 to 63
Lets take an average with the numbers we have.
30 +42+45+63=180
180÷4=45
So 45mpg… less that what you used to calculate your costs.
Dont tell me to bugger off because i haven’t done tests when you have also done no tests on fuel.
I know somethi g that will piss you off.
I drive an electric car.
It costs me 7p (about 9 cents) per kwh to charge.
It cost me £11.68 (about $14.89) to charge last month and i get about 3-4 miles per kwh.
I travelled 487 miles last month from the 1st to the 30th.
It cost me 2.4 pence (about 3 cents) per mile to drive this car.
American miles are the same as british miles
And i pulled the mpg data from american sources so your gallons are the same.
So despite your findings, my electic car costs less than your hybrid to run.
But i doubt your data is accurate, so thats fine.
I have very similar running costs per mile as you with my battery EV. For years now.
Wow. And you call me arrogant.
Toyota claims 48mpg. I claim 53mpg. My test has different results than Toyota’s claims. The entire basis of you (and the other guy’s) posts is mistaken from the beginning. And now you add bullshit numbers from unlisted sources despite two Prius owners in this topic telling you our statistics. And yet, I’m the arrogant and biased one. That’s… interesting.
Do you understand your position in this matter? I’m the one with the car. I can literally run the complete test when I want. And finally, I’ve shared my initial test results of 53mpg on a much smaller scale (mostly because its now 50F and I’m now unable to do cold weather tests. And the weatherman says I won’t have a near-freezing day for another week or two). Furthermore, it would take a substantial amount (ie: 200 miles of driving) to get a reasonable test done… assuming we want something like ~4 gallons averaged out on the test to help mitigate any errors.
But if you don’t like the initial numbers I’ve given you (53mpg), that’s not a fault of mine or methodology or whatever. I’m simply showing you my best estimate of reality here. And since YOU admit you don’t own this car, I’m not sure what the fuck you could possibly contribute to the discussion (nor the other guy for that matter).
Yes, you are arrogant.
You admitted to not running the test. Toyota dont claim 48. They claim 52. Unless you have the XSE or XSE premium model and not the SE.
If you are getting better stats than the manufacturer, then something is wrong with your test because they get those numbers in absolute perfect conditions and with very specific settings in the car, allowing them to maximise the mpg.
Yes, you are biased. You are reporting higher stats on the fuel and lower stats on the electric than toyota report. And you got and still are super pissy that people are arguing with you about it.
I understand my position. I dont own the car, so i have done research and looked at toyata reported stats as well as real owners stats and aggregated the results to come to a conclusion. That is more reliable than one persons individual experience. Especially when that one person hasnt done enough fuel only testing (which you stated plain as day) but wants to draw a conclusion from that.
Do you understand your position here? You haven’t done enough testing and are posting information to help other buyers make a choice about a purchase. It’s not enough data and may be wrong. So you are potentially causing others to make a poor decision on car purchase.
It absolutely is the fault of your methodology. Your method was to rigorously test the electric but use toyotas claimed stats for fuel. That’s the method you used to test each engine. That’s poor methodology. Using the manufacturers’ stats is closer to hearsay than you might want to admit.
You also bring up the weather conditions again. IT IS LITERALLY IN YOUR ORIGINAL POST where you say that the combustion engines are not affected by weather conditions. So do the fucking test!
Frankly, i can contribute as much as you since we both havent tested the fuel only capabilities of thos car. frankly i think you are a little man child who cant take a lick of critisism and would rather resort to insults than accept when you are wrong. Frankly i think you need to stop being aggressive towards me and the other poster and go and drive you car to get some actual stats.
No, you didn’t run any gas tests, you just quoted Toyotas figures, and your data set for electricity is rather small.
My running costs are from years of actual electricity charges, not some home electricity kit, and I saved about 80% over my petrol car running costs, even before the cheaper servicing and better value retention.
The funny thing is that you really don’t think that you are, and that it’s just all the nasty EV drivers out to dupe you that their running costs were lower and you seem to think that everyone is lying and dishonest except you.
It doesn’t seem to occur to you that your electric costs are higher and your gas costs are lower than some people.