Sure, criticize away, and you absolutely should. It’s just important to not get so carried away that you wind up contributing to an outcome that you openly know to be objectively worse at the ballot box.
It’s also important to not get carried away in support because you’re too afraid of losing to even try to improve the outcome. We could do better than Biden, and Biden could do better.
I’m not voting for Biden in the primaries. But I will absolutely vote for him in the general if he’s the not-Republican nominee.
Do not vote for a third party in the general election. In the context of how our electoral system works, third party votes are literally throwing away your vote. It genuinely does nothing, other than sap support from the less-bad candidate.
I agree that it’s shitty, and I hate it, but one must reconcile their political desires with how to represent those desires in the context of the electoral system one participate in. Picking a hill to die on because you have strong feelings isn’t going to do shit. Understand the rules of the system, and translating your beliefs into maximally-effective voting action is literally the most efficacious way to use your vote. In the US, that often means voting for people you don’t love. I hope that changes someday, but that day is not today.
That’s ok–I’ll lend my support to Biden for now. What’s the worst that’ll happen? He’ll claim the elections are rigged? He’ll give awful advice on dealing with a deadly pandemic? Cozy up with a bunch of fascists around the world? I mean, i guess he could do better…
Tell you right now: He starts pulling any of that shit, then fine–my support will be relinquished!
Sometimes though, you even do so much as lightly criticize Biden and you get called a Trumper. It’s like there’s only two extremes and if you’re not one, you’re the other.
Because we have a first-past-the-post voting system that all but guarantees only two parties are ever real contenders. We must to move toward ranked-choice voting if we ever want to have more options.
to make it clear to the whole world he openly endorses genocide
If that’s your takeaway, you’ll have to forgive me for thinking that you’re not exactly engaging in any meaningful amount of good faith and moving on.
It is amusing, however, that you say the only difference between them is in narrow specific topics after you’ve just cherrypicked a few select specific topics. As a member of that rainbow flag myself though, that’s a difference I rather appreciate.
I support gay rights, trans rights, whatever you wanna call yourself rights.
But the 12+ million people living here illegally being promised immigration reform for decades, including by Biden, have it much harder than the gays and are continously ignored and lately the government has been increasingly hostile to them
Biden, the supposed reformer, even did a photoshoot at the border with border patrol agents to inaugurate the expansion of the wall he promised to halt construction of.
I grew up illegal. I was under DACA. I trusted Biden to do something, because he said he would. I realize now (I knew before but chose to believe) that it’s all a scam. And the worst part is. The kicker is… that I’m probably going to vote for him anyways.
This country is a cruel uncaring machine that systematically crushes any sliver of hope.
Reagan did more for illegals than any democrat ever did. Ronald fuckin Reagan. I’ll give Obama credit for DACA. I assumed Biden would continue in those steps, but instead he’s gone Full Trump.
As for Israel, what they’re doing is genocide. If you read the facts and have any sliver of empathy or reason then you would see that. Biden knows. Trump knew. They don’t care. Because we actually don’t hold any humanitarian values. It’s all secondary to money and power
Immigration reform requires Congressional action, and I’m sure you know the state of Congress right now. I’m gonna take a wild guess that you’re on the younger side, haven’t been around for many presidential elections, and didn’t understand that statements made during the campaign are essentially a glorified wishlist unless they’re things that fall solely under executive authority. The fact of the matter is that no President has the power the unilaterally act on immigration.
And as a fun fact, that Reagan bill from 1986 got through Congress with more Democrats voting for it than Republicans. In fact, if you only look at Republican votes in the House, the bill would have been voted down.
So the real question is, if Biden had the Congress of 1986 rather than the current one that’s so dysfunctional we don’t even have a Speaker in the House, do you really think that nothing would be happening?
I get that politics is depressing and deeply frustrating, and that change always happens way too slowly. But if you look at it and come away thinking that there’s no meaningful difference between the parties, you’re simply not paying attention.
For what it’s personally worth, I’m in favor of largely unrestricted immigration and have also been frustrated with a lot of Biden’s actions. But I can also understand that there’s a level of political reality that has to be accepted. A lot of voters want some level of stronger border control. Tariffs are essentially a handout to domestic blue collar union workers which are vital to winning a presidential elections. It’s all cynical and shitty, but you either accept the reality of the situation, or you don’t and enjoy the consequences of empowering people who actually only care about money and personal power.
I support gay rights, trans rights, whatever you wanna call yourself rights.
When you refer to the LGBT community as “whatever you wanna call yourself”, your statement becomes less a support of gay rights and more of a variant of “I’m not a racist but…”
But the 12+ million people living here illegally being promised immigration reform for decades, including by Biden, have it much harder than the gays and are continously ignored and lately the government has been increasingly hostile to them
They are living here illegally. No shit the government has become hostile to them. Should they be handed coffee and donuts at the border?
Biden, the supposed reformer, even did a photoshoot at the border with border patrol agents to inaugurate the expansion of the wall he promised to halt construction of.
Should he offer to take selfies with the ones crossing illegally instead?
I grew up illegal. I was under DACA. I trusted Biden to do something, because he said he would. I realize now (I knew before but chose to believe) that it’s all a scam. And the worst part is. The kicker is… that I’m probably going to vote for him anyways.
Wait…wait…wait, what?
You were here illegally. You’re here under DACA. As there’s no path to citizenship for DACA immigrants, how the hell are you voting?
This country is a cruel uncaring machine that systematically crushes any sliver of hope.
You can feel free to return to whatever country you were born in. I understand you were not brought here through your own choice, but that doesn’t mean the US government owes you a free ride, either.
Reagan did more for illegals than any democrat ever did. Ronald fuckin Reagan. I’ll give Obama credit for DACA. I assumed Biden would continue in those steps, but instead he’s gone Full Trump.
There are numerous issues with this statement, but I’ll just sum it up by once again saying that the US government doesn’t owe you a damn thing. You came here illegally. By your own admission, you’re still here (technically) illegally. Heck, you’re voting illegally. Stop acting as if the government owes you something for being here illegally.
As for Israel, what they’re doing is genocide. If you read the facts and have any sliver of empathy or reason then you would see that. Biden knows. Trump knew. They don’t care. Because we actually don’t hold any humanitarian values. It’s all secondary to money and power
Neither side was right. Hamas literally fucked around and found out. They killed, what, 1400 people and took 200+ hostages in an unprovoked attack. Did they think Israel was going to thank them for visiting? Israel is literally surrounded by countries who believe that it doesn’t have the right to exist and that its citizens should be exterminated. They are the geopolitical equivalent of a cornered/wounded animal. Ever see how a cornered animal reacts when it feels threatened? It was always known that if Hamas or Hezbollah pulled a stunt like that, Israel was going to lash out. They attacked anyway, and now act like they’re the victims because Israel retaliated.
No, I’m not a fan of how Israel retaliated. They continue to attack blind, with no regard for the difference between Hamas and civillians. They’ve killed thousands of civillians in the process. Their retaliation has clearly been disproportionate. They are just as in the wrong for their retaliation as Hamas was for attacking in the first place. But when you launch unprovoked attacks against a regional superpower that outclasses you by orders of magnitude and say that they don’t have the right to exist, you can’t be surprised when they go full blitzkrieg on your ass in response.
This country, especially specific states, wouldn’t run without labor from illegals. Inflation would go up because Americans simply don’t work as hard and demand more $. The people running this country don’t actually want that to happen so they play a game where they’re anti-illegal but don’t make any significant moves to get rid of them.
They’re a perfect population. A silent group that pays taxes, doesn’t pull from welfare, commits much less crime than Americans, and isn’t politically active.
That’s why people like Trump will shout on and on about a wall when he actually knows the majority of illegals are visa overstays coming on planes. If ICE wanted to, they could deport every illegal tomorrow. I’ve seen the files from an immigration attorney. They have profiles of everyone.
As for Israel v Gaza. Your same argument can be made to justify Hamas’s terror attack. Israel has been killing Palestinians for decades. Therefore in self defense they attack Israel and the dead civilians are an unnecessary evil to pay because the Palestinians have a right to exist.
I personally think that civilians don’t deserve to die. Especially thousands of children. There are diplomatic solutions here.
Reality is though, Israel is the aggressor and doesn’t want a diplomatic solution. The Hamas terror attack was appalling but if you look at the numbers, the number of dead Palestinian civilians dwarfs whatever Hamas did.
The Palestinians are simply not strong enough to break free on their own. They will continue to get slowly exterminated unless something changes. This is the logic behind Hamas’s suicide attack. They either do something now or die.
this is the type of country we support? Russia bombed a hospital and killed 4 people the president is talking about war crimes this and collective punishment that. Putin even got tried in the ICC.
But when Israel does it the best he can do is say that Israel has a right to “self-defense” and give Netanyahu a big hug? Why do we bend over backwards and risk WW3 for such a country?
Neither do you. We do both know, however, what they are doing. Like sending thousands of bombs to Israel so that they can kill more Palestinians. I believe the latest shipment was about 8,000 bombs. At the rate they’re, going that’s enough for a bit over a week.
I understand there’s nuance to the situation that I’m ignoring to make a sparky comment. It’s obvious the US is trying to pull back the chain on Israel a little more tightly, especially after the hospital explosion, but at the end of the day Israel is an extension of the US.
The ethnic cleansing and apartheid did not start Oct 7th. Both Biden and Trump have made it clear they are very pro-Israel. Probably Biden wouldn’t have moved the embassy, I think.
trump moved the embassy to jerusalem, legitimizing israel’s violation of international law
Not that I really want to be defending Trump here, but remember that the US does not recognize international law.
biden goes over and gives netanyahu a big hug on TV in order to make it clear to the whole world he openly endorses genocide
Because of the way Israel handled the situation, there was really no way Biden was going to be able to take one side or the other without pissing somebody off. Both were in the wrong. Hamas clearly should not have attacked unprovoked and taken hundreds of hostages, but Israel should not have gone full “Kill 'em all and let God sort them out” mode either. The hospital bombing didn’t do anyone any favors either, as you could have video evidence proving who was responsible and people still wouldn’t believe it.
trump started the border wall
Actually, no. George HW Bush stared the wall and every single president since him has expanded it ever since. Trump was just the first to make it a focal point of his campaign and policy.
biden expanded construction on it
So did every president before him.
trump unilaterally broke the iranian nuclear deal
biden makes no real effort to reinstate it
Iran was pissed that Trump unilaterally broke it in the first place, and feel that attempting to re-negotiate would be pointless if the next administration can just unilaterally drop it on a whim. Plus, with Iran seemingly readying to go up against Israel, any attempt to reinstate it is probably dead on arrival at this point.
trump puts tariffs on chinese steel and other imports from china
biden continues the same tariffs
Why should Biden lift tariffs from a country that is becoming increasingly hostile to us and have far more draconian measures in place in their own country?
trump used “temporary” covid measures in order to refuse people at the border seeking asylum and separate families
biden uses the same exact policies, again in violation of both international and internal laws
Again, international law does not apply in the US, and many countries had strict immigration policies in place regarding COVID.
the difference between them is narrow and focused on specific topics. for example biden is nice to the rainbow flag.
when biden says one thing and does another, i guess really he’s not breaking a promise. like with the saudis or with the border wall. i must be misunderstanding
Yeah, he should just break the law and throw away years of foreign policy efforts. All for a constituency that is always going to find some reason to be mad at something else. Grow up.
Obviously he should stick to campaign promises or not make them. That’s sloppy politics. But to say that the administration is exactly the same as trump, it’s kind of willfully ridiculous. There are reasons why the admin does these things. You can disagree with them, but I’m tired of the take that there is only really one political party bro.
Biden isn’t really expanding border wall construction. There hasn’t been a policy shift to build a giant wall to solve immigration issues. Just a single case of wall being built. Every one of your points are skin deep and ignores a lot of nuance. Not to mention the condescending comment on being nice to the rainbow flag.
Let this be a reminder to anyone who hasn’t liked Biden’s handling of the Gaza situation that this is the alternative.
Bro, just because Trump is worse than Biden doesn’t make Biden immune to criticism
Sure, criticize away, and you absolutely should. It’s just important to not get so carried away that you wind up contributing to an outcome that you openly know to be objectively worse at the ballot box.
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It’s also important to not get carried away in support because you’re too afraid of losing to even try to improve the outcome. We could do better than Biden, and Biden could do better.
you can say this about literally any president ever
In hindsight, sure. But we’re talking about the next president. Biden will be the nominee, and that’s one of the biggest advantages Trump’s got.
I’m not voting for Biden in the primaries. But I will absolutely vote for him in the general if he’s the not-Republican nominee.
Do not vote for a third party in the general election. In the context of how our electoral system works, third party votes are literally throwing away your vote. It genuinely does nothing, other than sap support from the less-bad candidate.
I agree that it’s shitty, and I hate it, but one must reconcile their political desires with how to represent those desires in the context of the electoral system one participate in. Picking a hill to die on because you have strong feelings isn’t going to do shit. Understand the rules of the system, and translating your beliefs into maximally-effective voting action is literally the most efficacious way to use your vote. In the US, that often means voting for people you don’t love. I hope that changes someday, but that day is not today.
That’s ok–I’ll lend my support to Biden for now. What’s the worst that’ll happen? He’ll claim the elections are rigged? He’ll give awful advice on dealing with a deadly pandemic? Cozy up with a bunch of fascists around the world? I mean, i guess he could do better…
Tell you right now: He starts pulling any of that shit, then fine–my support will be relinquished!
That’s the problem, though. He doesn’t have to do any of that shit. He could just lose.
Yeah, but my man ain’t said shit about not criticizing Biden.
Sometimes though, you even do so much as lightly criticize Biden and you get called a Trumper. It’s like there’s only two extremes and if you’re not one, you’re the other.
Everyone criticizes Biden and calling him extreme is ridiculously out of touch.
That’s probably why you get called a Trumper.
Biden isn’t “extreme”
Poster is pretty much saying that there is no difference between him and trump. Just super incorrect and arrogant.
Why are either of them choices?
Because we have a first-past-the-post voting system that all but guarantees only two parties are ever real contenders. We must to move toward ranked-choice voting if we ever want to have more options.
First past the post voting, Citizens United, and the Electoral College, among other reasons.
Toss in all the barriers to even get a third party candidate on the ballot
Why can someone collect social security and enact policy that takes it away from people paying into it?
No senior citizen should be allowed to hold office.
Step right up dude, what have you got to loose?
Are you under the impression that it costs 0 dollars to make an earnest run for president?
I have my life’s savings to lose. And I’d lose it, because the presidency is a game of connectedness and reach ($), not ‘governing chops.’
I’m running for president. Please write in [email protected] next year. I swear I am legally eligible…
I guess that’s the best USA had to offer.
Tiger king would have been better.
for many matters trump and biden are identical
trump moved the embassy to jerusalem, legitimizing israel’s violation of international law
biden goes over and gives netanyahu a big hug on TV in order to make it clear to the whole world he openly endorses genocide
trump started the border wall
biden expanded construction on it
trump unilaterally broke the iranian nuclear deal
biden makes no real effort to reinstate it
trump puts tariffs on chinese steel and other imports from china
biden continues the same tariffs
trump used “temporary” covid measures in order to refuse people at the border seeking asylum and separate families
biden uses the same exact policies, again in violation of both international and internal laws
the difference between them is narrow and focused on specific topics. for example biden is nice to the rainbow flag.
If that’s your takeaway, you’ll have to forgive me for thinking that you’re not exactly engaging in any meaningful amount of good faith and moving on.
It is amusing, however, that you say the only difference between them is in narrow specific topics after you’ve just cherrypicked a few select specific topics. As a member of that rainbow flag myself though, that’s a difference I rather appreciate.
I support gay rights, trans rights, whatever you wanna call yourself rights.
But the 12+ million people living here illegally being promised immigration reform for decades, including by Biden, have it much harder than the gays and are continously ignored and lately the government has been increasingly hostile to them
Biden, the supposed reformer, even did a photoshoot at the border with border patrol agents to inaugurate the expansion of the wall he promised to halt construction of.
I grew up illegal. I was under DACA. I trusted Biden to do something, because he said he would. I realize now (I knew before but chose to believe) that it’s all a scam. And the worst part is. The kicker is… that I’m probably going to vote for him anyways.
This country is a cruel uncaring machine that systematically crushes any sliver of hope.
Reagan did more for illegals than any democrat ever did. Ronald fuckin Reagan. I’ll give Obama credit for DACA. I assumed Biden would continue in those steps, but instead he’s gone Full Trump.
As for Israel, what they’re doing is genocide. If you read the facts and have any sliver of empathy or reason then you would see that. Biden knows. Trump knew. They don’t care. Because we actually don’t hold any humanitarian values. It’s all secondary to money and power
Immigration reform requires Congressional action, and I’m sure you know the state of Congress right now. I’m gonna take a wild guess that you’re on the younger side, haven’t been around for many presidential elections, and didn’t understand that statements made during the campaign are essentially a glorified wishlist unless they’re things that fall solely under executive authority. The fact of the matter is that no President has the power the unilaterally act on immigration.
And as a fun fact, that Reagan bill from 1986 got through Congress with more Democrats voting for it than Republicans. In fact, if you only look at Republican votes in the House, the bill would have been voted down.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/99-1986/h872
So the real question is, if Biden had the Congress of 1986 rather than the current one that’s so dysfunctional we don’t even have a Speaker in the House, do you really think that nothing would be happening?
I get that politics is depressing and deeply frustrating, and that change always happens way too slowly. But if you look at it and come away thinking that there’s no meaningful difference between the parties, you’re simply not paying attention.
For what it’s personally worth, I’m in favor of largely unrestricted immigration and have also been frustrated with a lot of Biden’s actions. But I can also understand that there’s a level of political reality that has to be accepted. A lot of voters want some level of stronger border control. Tariffs are essentially a handout to domestic blue collar union workers which are vital to winning a presidential elections. It’s all cynical and shitty, but you either accept the reality of the situation, or you don’t and enjoy the consequences of empowering people who actually only care about money and personal power.
When you refer to the LGBT community as “whatever you wanna call yourself”, your statement becomes less a support of gay rights and more of a variant of “I’m not a racist but…”
They are living here illegally. No shit the government has become hostile to them. Should they be handed coffee and donuts at the border?
Should he offer to take selfies with the ones crossing illegally instead?
Wait…wait…wait, what?
You were here illegally. You’re here under DACA. As there’s no path to citizenship for DACA immigrants, how the hell are you voting?
You can feel free to return to whatever country you were born in. I understand you were not brought here through your own choice, but that doesn’t mean the US government owes you a free ride, either.
There are numerous issues with this statement, but I’ll just sum it up by once again saying that the US government doesn’t owe you a damn thing. You came here illegally. By your own admission, you’re still here (technically) illegally. Heck, you’re voting illegally. Stop acting as if the government owes you something for being here illegally.
Neither side was right. Hamas literally fucked around and found out. They killed, what, 1400 people and took 200+ hostages in an unprovoked attack. Did they think Israel was going to thank them for visiting? Israel is literally surrounded by countries who believe that it doesn’t have the right to exist and that its citizens should be exterminated. They are the geopolitical equivalent of a cornered/wounded animal. Ever see how a cornered animal reacts when it feels threatened? It was always known that if Hamas or Hezbollah pulled a stunt like that, Israel was going to lash out. They attacked anyway, and now act like they’re the victims because Israel retaliated.
No, I’m not a fan of how Israel retaliated. They continue to attack blind, with no regard for the difference between Hamas and civillians. They’ve killed thousands of civillians in the process. Their retaliation has clearly been disproportionate. They are just as in the wrong for their retaliation as Hamas was for attacking in the first place. But when you launch unprovoked attacks against a regional superpower that outclasses you by orders of magnitude and say that they don’t have the right to exist, you can’t be surprised when they go full blitzkrieg on your ass in response.
I’m a citizen now. I was illegal from 5-22
This country, especially specific states, wouldn’t run without labor from illegals. Inflation would go up because Americans simply don’t work as hard and demand more $. The people running this country don’t actually want that to happen so they play a game where they’re anti-illegal but don’t make any significant moves to get rid of them.
They’re a perfect population. A silent group that pays taxes, doesn’t pull from welfare, commits much less crime than Americans, and isn’t politically active.
That’s why people like Trump will shout on and on about a wall when he actually knows the majority of illegals are visa overstays coming on planes. If ICE wanted to, they could deport every illegal tomorrow. I’ve seen the files from an immigration attorney. They have profiles of everyone.
As for Israel v Gaza. Your same argument can be made to justify Hamas’s terror attack. Israel has been killing Palestinians for decades. Therefore in self defense they attack Israel and the dead civilians are an unnecessary evil to pay because the Palestinians have a right to exist.
I personally think that civilians don’t deserve to die. Especially thousands of children. There are diplomatic solutions here.
Reality is though, Israel is the aggressor and doesn’t want a diplomatic solution. The Hamas terror attack was appalling but if you look at the numbers, the number of dead Palestinian civilians dwarfs whatever Hamas did.
The Palestinians are simply not strong enough to break free on their own. They will continue to get slowly exterminated unless something changes. This is the logic behind Hamas’s suicide attack. They either do something now or die.
this is the type of country we support? Russia bombed a hospital and killed 4 people the president is talking about war crimes this and collective punishment that. Putin even got tried in the ICC.
But when Israel does it the best he can do is say that Israel has a right to “self-defense” and give Netanyahu a big hug? Why do we bend over backwards and risk WW3 for such a country?
You have no idea of what the State Dept is working on internally.
Neither do you. We do both know, however, what they are doing. Like sending thousands of bombs to Israel so that they can kill more Palestinians. I believe the latest shipment was about 8,000 bombs. At the rate they’re, going that’s enough for a bit over a week.
I understand there’s nuance to the situation that I’m ignoring to make a sparky comment. It’s obvious the US is trying to pull back the chain on Israel a little more tightly, especially after the hospital explosion, but at the end of the day Israel is an extension of the US.
The ethnic cleansing and apartheid did not start Oct 7th. Both Biden and Trump have made it clear they are very pro-Israel. Probably Biden wouldn’t have moved the embassy, I think.
Not that I really want to be defending Trump here, but remember that the US does not recognize international law.
Because of the way Israel handled the situation, there was really no way Biden was going to be able to take one side or the other without pissing somebody off. Both were in the wrong. Hamas clearly should not have attacked unprovoked and taken hundreds of hostages, but Israel should not have gone full “Kill 'em all and let God sort them out” mode either. The hospital bombing didn’t do anyone any favors either, as you could have video evidence proving who was responsible and people still wouldn’t believe it.
Actually, no. George HW Bush stared the wall and every single president since him has expanded it ever since. Trump was just the first to make it a focal point of his campaign and policy.
So did every president before him.
Iran was pissed that Trump unilaterally broke it in the first place, and feel that attempting to re-negotiate would be pointless if the next administration can just unilaterally drop it on a whim. Plus, with Iran seemingly readying to go up against Israel, any attempt to reinstate it is probably dead on arrival at this point.
Why should Biden lift tariffs from a country that is becoming increasingly hostile to us and have far more draconian measures in place in their own country?
Again, international law does not apply in the US, and many countries had strict immigration policies in place regarding COVID.
Well if that isn’t awfully condescending…
This is such a poor understanding of policy.
yeah i guess i’m just dense.
when biden says one thing and does another, i guess really he’s not breaking a promise. like with the saudis or with the border wall. i must be misunderstanding
Yeah, he should just break the law and throw away years of foreign policy efforts. All for a constituency that is always going to find some reason to be mad at something else. Grow up.
Obviously he should stick to campaign promises or not make them. That’s sloppy politics. But to say that the administration is exactly the same as trump, it’s kind of willfully ridiculous. There are reasons why the admin does these things. You can disagree with them, but I’m tired of the take that there is only really one political party bro.
Biden isn’t really expanding border wall construction. There hasn’t been a policy shift to build a giant wall to solve immigration issues. Just a single case of wall being built. Every one of your points are skin deep and ignores a lot of nuance. Not to mention the condescending comment on being nice to the rainbow flag.