That’s quite a high bar. Can you give a Windows or Mac laptop to your elderly neighbour and not also provide them support?
I realise that I am only a sample set of one and my mother and father have very different usage patterns but they are both in their late 70s. My mother has an Ubuntu laptop and my father had a Windows one. He requires a lot more support. My mum’s biggest issue is forgetting her password which is hardly the fault of the OS.
Edit: to be clear I’m not necessarily agreeing with the OP. I have no opinion on the needs of “most users”.
It is a high bar, but so is “best for most people”.
Like i said, its getting better and better, but i dont think its anywhere near close to “best for most”.
As for anecdotes, my dad has been using Linux for years professionally, and occasionally needs help fixing something that broke in an update. Ill have to pry Win7 away from my mum at some point.
I think we need to be very careful making these kind of bold claims, as it can end up sounding very silly if it turns out to be untrue. “Year of the linux desktop”, “Mission accomplished”, etc.
I couldn’t give a Windows computer to my grandparents without it being buried under a pile of catalogs and magazines, maybe used once or twice. That’s anecdotal but I definitely don’t think it’s uncommon.
When will people stop setting the bar for usability at “can be used be old people”? I’m 53, and I guess that makes me an old person, but I suspect I know more about computers than many so-called digital natives. I can also tell you my 80-year-old dad can barely use an Android device. What happens when all the “old-people” are gone? What is the bar then? How about all the younger folk that don’t understand anything you can’t swipe? Is Windows or Mac any better in these cases (no, the answer is no)? Maybe we should have a Playskool type UI?
Additionally, when will people stop using and linking to bullshit sites like Medium that constantly pester with pop-ups demanding my email and money?
Thats fair, i shouldn’t have brought age into it. Sorry. My partner is mid 30s, and I dont think she would find Linux usable either, its certainly not an age thing. Again, sorry for any offence.
I’m not trying to say that Linux isnt usable, it obviously is for many people (myself included), but for “most people”, i dont think it is “Best”. Specifically, the tech adverse crowd are not going to have a pleasant time without external support, and they make up a large portion of the population. Its silly though, to try claim a “best”. Windows is the clear popularity leader of OSs, but if all other OSs were to disappear except for Windows, it wouldnt take long for the next Linus/Terry Davis to bring out something that suits them better.
Sorry for rambling :)
I 100% agree on Medium though, complete nuisance of a site to use. Content is usually not worth it either.
In my role at a Uni, I teach. I learned early on that every class I offer should have a skills workshop. One of them are basic non-phone skills like copying and pasting. Yes. Our youngest generation of college students in non computer sciences struggles with how to understand file structures and keyboard commands like copy and paste because they’ve never seen them before. So let’s stop making technology usefulness a generational thing. It’s exposure and education, which applies to everyone.
When will people stop setting the bar for usability at “can be used be old people”? I’m 53, and I guess that makes me an old person, but I suspect I know more about computers than many so-called digital natives.
It is a bit silly indeed. Unix is actually older than you.
And I’m pretty sure that “digital natives” have much more problems understanding the technical depths of an OS because they’ve simply never had to deal with them. Instead they prefer the fuzzy feeling that having a megacorporation decide your every need provides.
Until i can give a laptop with linux to my neighbour without also needing to also provide support, its not there yet.
I mean, isn’t your neighbor already getting Windows support from his son or nephew anyway? Let’s not pretend that there exists a magical and perfect OS for those who don’t want to learn one. Some learning is required, whichever the OS, and I would be hard to convince that a current preinstalled Linux is more difficult to handle than a current preinstalled Windows.
Windows has for itself that it’s a devil most people know/got exposure to (thanks to Microsoft schemes and monopolistic practices), there is nothing inherently better or easier about it (and arguably quite the opposite).
You can pry KDE from my cold, dead hands. But there’s no way I’d put it on my dad’s laptop and then fly back out of state.
Linux for the elderly is called ChromeOS. Links to individual sites on the launcher with their web icons. Email, Amazon, banking, Google. Settings can’t be accidentally changed.
So yes, it’s widely available, but it’s not a distro.
My only problem with ChromeOS was installing it on unsupported hardware. Id like to be able to get an old laptop and install it, but it hasnt been possible since I last checked?
My situation was my dad’s existing Windows laptop was borked, and on a visit for his birthday with other family, I was tasked with fixing the situation. I’d never considered a Chromebook, but the more I thought about it, the more it made sense, given that he’s past doing anything beyond Web browsing and writing emails. Local storage was irrelevant, and in 2021, any CPU was sufficient.
We splurged and got him a $300 model with a nice, big 1080p screen that I still had to scale to 150%, and he was very happy not to have all these things on his desktop and just a few big buttons that did what he wanted.
It’s not a solution for repurposing an existing machine, unfortunately. But the savings in time and agony (I had to unsnarl a few things with his accounts on all sites after local “help” did about what you’d expect from someone taking advantage of a guy in assisted living) since have more than made up for the initial expense.
What’s it like for remote support? Can you remote desktop into it if you need to? Or do you just not need to do that?
My goto for my grandma is an android tablet. She has terrible eyesight, so a light tablet can be “zoomed” as much as she needs, and i can remote in with some difficulty via teamviewer.
Yep, you can remote in from Chrome on any other machine. Just get on the phone so they can provide the connection code, and you’re good to go. Unfortunately, this does not cover “I forgot my login password” …
I gave a windows 7 netbook to my grandma a few years back. It wasnt super bad, but eventually her eyesight started to ler her down. She upgraded to an android tablet, which is greatly helped.
She was fairly technically proficient though, she used to take the bus to the library just so she could take classes on how to use computers, so she set herself up for success there.
She is still mentally capable, but alas her eyesight is letting her down :(
A 70 year old who retired and spent 5 years learning all they could about tech, can have much more technical ability than a 25 year old who spent 20 years learning all they could about memes and internet influencers.
This seems wildly out of touch. Yes, things are getting better and more user friendly, but its definitely not “best for most people”.
Until i can give a laptop with linux to my neighbour without also needing to also provide support, its not there yet.
Edit: removed unintended agism. Technical ability is not linked to age, i should know better.
That’s quite a high bar. Can you give a Windows or Mac laptop to your elderly neighbour and not also provide them support?
I realise that I am only a sample set of one and my mother and father have very different usage patterns but they are both in their late 70s. My mother has an Ubuntu laptop and my father had a Windows one. He requires a lot more support. My mum’s biggest issue is forgetting her password which is hardly the fault of the OS.
Edit: to be clear I’m not necessarily agreeing with the OP. I have no opinion on the needs of “most users”.
It is a high bar, but so is “best for most people”.
Like i said, its getting better and better, but i dont think its anywhere near close to “best for most”.
As for anecdotes, my dad has been using Linux for years professionally, and occasionally needs help fixing something that broke in an update. Ill have to pry Win7 away from my mum at some point.
I think we need to be very careful making these kind of bold claims, as it can end up sounding very silly if it turns out to be untrue. “Year of the linux desktop”, “Mission accomplished”, etc.
I couldn’t give a Windows computer to my grandparents without it being buried under a pile of catalogs and magazines, maybe used once or twice. That’s anecdotal but I definitely don’t think it’s uncommon.
When will people stop setting the bar for usability at “can be used be old people”? I’m 53, and I guess that makes me an old person, but I suspect I know more about computers than many so-called digital natives. I can also tell you my 80-year-old dad can barely use an Android device. What happens when all the “old-people” are gone? What is the bar then? How about all the younger folk that don’t understand anything you can’t swipe? Is Windows or Mac any better in these cases (no, the answer is no)? Maybe we should have a Playskool type UI?
Additionally, when will people stop using and linking to bullshit sites like Medium that constantly pester with pop-ups demanding my email and money?
Thats fair, i shouldn’t have brought age into it. Sorry. My partner is mid 30s, and I dont think she would find Linux usable either, its certainly not an age thing. Again, sorry for any offence.
I’m not trying to say that Linux isnt usable, it obviously is for many people (myself included), but for “most people”, i dont think it is “Best”. Specifically, the tech adverse crowd are not going to have a pleasant time without external support, and they make up a large portion of the population. Its silly though, to try claim a “best”. Windows is the clear popularity leader of OSs, but if all other OSs were to disappear except for Windows, it wouldnt take long for the next Linus/Terry Davis to bring out something that suits them better.
Sorry for rambling :)
I 100% agree on Medium though, complete nuisance of a site to use. Content is usually not worth it either.
In my role at a Uni, I teach. I learned early on that every class I offer should have a skills workshop. One of them are basic non-phone skills like copying and pasting. Yes. Our youngest generation of college students in non computer sciences struggles with how to understand file structures and keyboard commands like copy and paste because they’ve never seen them before. So let’s stop making technology usefulness a generational thing. It’s exposure and education, which applies to everyone.
It is a bit silly indeed. Unix is actually older than you.
And I’m pretty sure that “digital natives” have much more problems understanding the technical depths of an OS because they’ve simply never had to deal with them. Instead they prefer the fuzzy feeling that having a megacorporation decide your every need provides.
This is a good question. What will the new bar be once the current “old people” are gone?
Maybe the trope would be people who are too busy to fiddle with settings, like a super busy CEO or something.
Hospital computer interface of the future: https://youtu.be/LXzJR7K0wK0
…some say Windows 8 came ahead of its time.
I mean, isn’t your neighbor already getting Windows support from his son or nephew anyway? Let’s not pretend that there exists a magical and perfect OS for those who don’t want to learn one. Some learning is required, whichever the OS, and I would be hard to convince that a current preinstalled Linux is more difficult to handle than a current preinstalled Windows.
Windows has for itself that it’s a devil most people know/got exposure to (thanks to Microsoft schemes and monopolistic practices), there is nothing inherently better or easier about it (and arguably quite the opposite).
You can pry KDE from my cold, dead hands. But there’s no way I’d put it on my dad’s laptop and then fly back out of state.
Linux for the elderly is called ChromeOS. Links to individual sites on the launcher with their web icons. Email, Amazon, banking, Google. Settings can’t be accidentally changed.
So yes, it’s widely available, but it’s not a distro.
My only problem with ChromeOS was installing it on unsupported hardware. Id like to be able to get an old laptop and install it, but it hasnt been possible since I last checked?
My situation was my dad’s existing Windows laptop was borked, and on a visit for his birthday with other family, I was tasked with fixing the situation. I’d never considered a Chromebook, but the more I thought about it, the more it made sense, given that he’s past doing anything beyond Web browsing and writing emails. Local storage was irrelevant, and in 2021, any CPU was sufficient.
We splurged and got him a $300 model with a nice, big 1080p screen that I still had to scale to 150%, and he was very happy not to have all these things on his desktop and just a few big buttons that did what he wanted.
It’s not a solution for repurposing an existing machine, unfortunately. But the savings in time and agony (I had to unsnarl a few things with his accounts on all sites after local “help” did about what you’d expect from someone taking advantage of a guy in assisted living) since have more than made up for the initial expense.
What’s it like for remote support? Can you remote desktop into it if you need to? Or do you just not need to do that?
My goto for my grandma is an android tablet. She has terrible eyesight, so a light tablet can be “zoomed” as much as she needs, and i can remote in with some difficulty via teamviewer.
Yep, you can remote in from Chrome on any other machine. Just get on the phone so they can provide the connection code, and you’re good to go. Unfortunately, this does not cover “I forgot my login password” …
I couldn’t give a Windows PC to my grandparents, either, though.
I gave a windows 7 netbook to my grandma a few years back. It wasnt super bad, but eventually her eyesight started to ler her down. She upgraded to an android tablet, which is greatly helped.
She was fairly technically proficient though, she used to take the bus to the library just so she could take classes on how to use computers, so she set herself up for success there.
She is still mentally capable, but alas her eyesight is letting her down :(
Technical ability is very much linked to age. Same as playing the piano is linked to how much you practice
Interest × practice, not so much age.
A 70 year old who retired and spent 5 years learning all they could about tech, can have much more technical ability than a 25 year old who spent 20 years learning all they could about memes and internet influencers.
I’m not familiar with the current state of Linux, but the minimum usability bar for the general public is never ever having to open a terminal.