from the passcodes-ftw dept

  • BombOmOm@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Best description of this I have seen is: the 5th Amendment protects compelled production what you know. It does not protect what you are (fingerprints, hair, etc).

      • BombOmOm@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Yep. Passcode unlocks are legally protected, unlike fingerprint unlocks. If you have any desire to keep the police out of your phone, you should not have fingerprint unlock enabled.

    • PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml
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      8 months ago

      Also breathalyzers. You can be compelled to give blood/breath/etc in the course of a criminal investigation and there are no constitutional protections covering you.

      • HubertManne@kbin.social
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        8 months ago

        which is crazy. how is puncturing someones sking and drawing blood against their will not a type of battery

        • Coasting0942@reddthat.com
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          8 months ago

          If blood draw is done properly it should be pretty uneventful.

          Permanent damage could get a lawsuit to compel a less risky procedure by the cops.

          • HubertManne@kbin.social
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            8 months ago

            still crazy. the person is being held down to have their skin pierced by metal to make it bleed. why the heck is this just casually allowed?! Heck even breathalyzers should have to function without touching you to be legit to me.

            • Coasting0942@reddthat.com
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              8 months ago

              It’s not casually allowed. The courts have determined there can be minor intrusions into your body under strictly limited conditions including after a warrant. Arguing that the whole thing is crazy is pointless because you have no constitutional protection once a judge certifies the circumstances necessitate it.

              The prosecutors are the ones pushing to get rid of the warrant requirement for blood draws.

              You have the option of refusing the breathalyzers, but most legislatures have the automatic clause that you instantly get treated as failing the breathalyzer test.

              • HubertManne@kbin.social
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                8 months ago

                Oh. I thought folks were saying without a warrant. just at a stop. I get once the court is involved we pretty much lose our rights. Judges can put you in jail pretty much as they please once your in a court room and of course people are jailed and lose many rights. Not happy about that either granted but I get it.

    • tuckerm@supermeter.social
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      8 months ago

      Or “things you possess,” either. I remember being told (maybe in a college class, but I don’t remember exactly) that you can be compelled to give up the key to a lock, but not the combination to a lock.

  • southsamurai@sh.itjust.works
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    8 months ago

    That was inevitable. It’s why I never use anything that can be compelled. Make the fuckers work for it in the event the government turns you into a criminal by passing a shitty law.

  • ChallengeApathy@infosec.pub
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    8 months ago

    Just don’t use biometrics. Bad idea in general. A 6+ digit PIN or password is just fine, especially if you set your phone to factory reset after a certain number of failed unlock attempts.

    • PirateJesus@lemmy.todayOP
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      8 months ago

      That’s just giving up your rights from the get go. They can get a warrant to compel the fingerprint.

      In this computer age, warrant requests are a button press to send a docusign e-mail to a judge, who can click the sign button while he sips his cappuccino. Make them work for it.

      • ChallengeApathy@infosec.pub
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        8 months ago

        Right… that’s what I’m saying. Under the fifth, they can’t compel you to unlock your phone if it’s protected by a PIN or password and if you set it to factory reset after a bunch of failed attempts, they can try but it’s unlikely they’ll break the PIN/pass in a few attempts.

        • PirateJesus@lemmy.todayOP
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          8 months ago

          The right to not surrender a pass code has actually not yet been decided. We already have differences between regions.

          • ChallengeApathy@infosec.pub
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            8 months ago

            It’s protected under the fifth. Even so, requiring a warrant to get your passcode is far better than not requiring a warrant to demand biometrics. Either way you slice it, passcode > biometrics.

            • PirateJesus@lemmy.todayOP
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              8 months ago

              SCOTUS has not yet decided that a password in your brain is protected by the fifth.

              Your phone is protected by the fifth.

              Until SCOTUS decides that passwords are protected by the fifth, you can be held in contempt of court by a judge indefinitely because you forgot the password (theoretical scenario, has not yet happened).

              • ChallengeApathy@infosec.pub
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                8 months ago

                There have been instances where judges ruled in favor of them being protected which sets a legal precedent. The SCOTUS probably won’t get involved unless a major lawsuit or federal-level case occurs.

                Either way, passcodes are superior. Not sure why you’re arguing this.

                • PirateJesus@lemmy.todayOP
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                  8 months ago

                  I take issue with the statement “passwords are protected by the fifth amendment”.

                  SCOTUS is not guaranteed to affirm that above statement.