What do people think of a “journalistic integrity” rule? I know that’s also subjective, but I’m trying to think of how to phrase a rule that is basically “don’t post intentionally incendiary crap”. I guess the rule could just be “don’t post intentionally incendiary crap”, with some examples of what that means and community opportunities to in some way indicate that an article is incendiary crap.

Hmm, yeah, I think we have fundamentally different positions if you see the average teen voting for less policing to be ill informed or disastrous. I don’t mean this in a snarky way, I mean I think we would have a lot of ground to cover before agreeing on this point one way or another.

The one thing I would consider is you probably don’t know what the average teen in your community thinks, because they do not have a political voice. Sure, they can attend community council meetings, but why do that when they aren’t able to choose who sits on that council? Teens being disengaged from community issues and teens not being able to have input on community issues are fundamentally linked.

I think these are fair points and definite possibilities! I don’t, however, know that I’d agree that these hypotheticals are enough to deny voting rights for local and school elections (remember, the 16 year olds won’t be voting for Bush in this scenario). So I don’t know if money and propaganda is quite so influential at that small scale–I haven’t found it to be in the past. Most people don’t even know their local elections are happening, much less know who the party line says to vote for.

Sure, and this is another gradation of voting; this would only be for local and school elections, which can have pretty immediate consequences for teens. In fact, 16 year olds (and others around that age) are the best positioned to have a say about school board policy, because they have been and currently are directly affected.

I do appreciate your perspective that a ‘stepwise’ system of adulthood can have huge benefits. I think this proposal actually fits quite nicely into it. They aren’t voting for president; they’re voting for the who will run the place they spend 8 hours per day.

Lol, I love that the only repository that meets their guidelines is their own.

Is there any part of this argument that does not also apply to college students? This is a genuine question, not intended as a gotcha. We allow 18 year olds to vote although they are subjected to many of the same pressures and inexperiences.

The people who voted for these politicians are by and large not the demographics being fucked over by those policies. I also used to feel like the right response was to laugh at these states, and being reminded that people who didn’t want these policies are still suffering from them didn’t really convince me of anything–after all, collectively, isn’t that the community they’re choosing to live in?

What changed my mind about that is realizing the harm is disproportionately distributed. Disenfranchised people are LESS likely to vote republican but MORE likely to suffer the effects of republican government. So when “they get what they voted for”, it’s really, “the poor get what the rich voted for”, and that doesn’t make me happy to laugh at at all.