Mirror? Can’t see it on mobile for some reason
they want to provoke violent confrontation, and are likely supporting those who are contributing here advocating for violent reaction. Don’t fall into the trap and they will not have any excuses or justification for escalation.
To be clear: reacting with violence will allow them to justify their escalation of violence, which is exactly what they want.
I advocate for violence all the time. That’s because I hate them.
I think it’s silly to prolong this. They are doing damage by the day.
I think it’s silly to prolong this
Yeah, you guys should just speedrun to “martial law and no midterm elections”, that would make everything better.
no midterm elections
Oh no, we might not get the chance to vote in Democrats so they can…
checks notes
write a strongly worded letter then send another $2 billion to Israel!
Well, clearly the only viable alternative is a civil war with thousands of dead. Because clearly nothing has changed in the Democratic camp, since - as we know - Marry Sheffield, Michelle Wu, and Zohran Mamdani are all, famously, in the capitalist pockets of Big Business, right?
They don’t need actual violence to declare martial law and suspend elections. They can just lie.
They don’t lie, just the other day they found Sadam’s WMDs.
Dude, they are already shooting and killing peaceful protesters. What does escalation even mean in that context? They’ll shoot and kill even more people? When someone is shooting at you, self defense is allowed.
Bullies need to be punched in the face.
But it is a double negative. Peaceful protests hasn’t done jack shit so far, now it’s naturally a phase two…
Right, placating Hitler instead of confronting him went great historically.
Okay can you share our next moves?
Because my calculus says civil war is inevitable and better earlier than later as they are actively preparing. They will look to build camps and disarm. It should crack off now.
The longer we wait the stronger their position became.
But please if you have a grandmaster mate worked out let’s hear it.
I’ll bet you also like to call Trump TACO, too, huh?
That they will escalate their violence is inevitable. At this point we should all be organizing our communities for self defense.
If it was chess, Trump wouldn’t be winning. This is far from chess, it’s the jungle.
No, we’re way passed this point. They are going to enact violence no matter how well behaved you are. The only hope is to show up in massive numbers and remind them how many more of us there are.
Exactly what “violence” was Renee Good guilty of?
These gestapo don’t need excuses or justification because they have no responsibility or consequences.
Yep. At some point they’re going to do this and some folks are gonna open fire on them or throw a Molotov or something, and then the repression will get harsher and harsher. We need to stop them before this escalates.
Meanwhile they murder and deport people.
Keep playing chess and you won’t have anyone else to play with.this is chess, not checkers.
They just ate their own rook.
They will do that anyway. What are the ptotesters saving themselves for, slavery? Maybe they should try to emmigrate. That way, they can all be here, when we start gathering every person we can for the fight.
Protestors are coming to these events with no weapons in hand, I think it is perfectly reasonable, given what we’ve seen, for protestors to be carrying guns like the black panthers did. ICE needs to know that thier violence will not go unopposed, the need to SEE that.
Renee didn’t escalate, and see what that got her?
ICE is dependent on people not being able to fight back. They are bullies, and would be much less likely to engage if they could end up getting three bullets in the face. Power that can be applied to them, is the only thing that a bully would respect.
They are already murdering people…
You don’t fucking get it. No one listen to this guy.
FEAR OF ESCALATION WILL ONLY BRING MORE ESCALATION.
The “don’t be provoked” thing only works in the old world. The one where rules and laws still exist.
These people are taking over, completely, and they will happily do so over your dead body if that’s what it takes.
They know it, and I’m starting to get the feeling the shooter yesterday had instructions to kill. The fact that the shooter is not in custody is ALL the evidence anyone needs now to fully understand.
Good luck to all.
👆 listening to this fool will get you and your loved ones killed
This seems like just a guess though of what seems “likely”. Truth is that no one knows. They may be supporting you as your argument is one that suppresses resistance, which also favours them.
Not that I know, just want to make clear no one knows. And they do not seem to need a justification for violence anyway.
They’re just playing you (saying this from outside US) because they know you can’t make sense of this, and resisting or not will both work in their favour.
Yea I remember when in school if you dont react to aggressive scumbag beating you he will stop bullying you. Works all the time
they’re going to do the violence anyways, and they’ll make up excuses
woman trying to drive her car away from them? shoot her in the face
reacting with violence will allow them to justify their escalation of violence
This position is not sustainable. All it takes is one act of violence to justify escalation against everyone.
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Anyone have any context as to what happened before? In the video the man only got pepperballed after grabbing the paintball gun.
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Watch it again, carefully. Or don’t, everyone already has their mind made up it seems
Oh ho ho, this ICE facility about to shut its doors one way or another.
Sure…
It’s happened before.
When?
In this very city we burned a police precinct to the ground. How short is your memory?
Try that shit again see what happens
I don’t live in your city. So I probably never heard of it.
Minneapolis during the George Floyd protests. Ya know, the same city from this story.
Portland City closed a facility for 3 weeks, the fight to keep it closed permanently is ongoing. There are other examples as well, but a lot of them get reversed at least temporary by Federal Judges who side with the Trump admin.
Bring ballistic goggles to protests. They are not fucking around. Neither should you
I think this was a spur of the moment the neighborhood coming out to protest. But for future ones yeah, eye protection, breathing protection, pads.
Id advise everyone to get a pair of ballistic goggles whether they plan to protest or not. Just be prepared. These idiots will start blinding people without realizing or caring.
Damn that had to have hurt like hell. He just walked it off like a champ.
Could have easily lost an eye or been killed.
Protestors need to start arming themselves.
I am telling this for months. A couple of months ago I was downvoted to abyss because “no we need to be peaceful because that’s how you solve problems”. No fucker. Do you think all people in Germany between 1935-1945 were silent? Protesters were killed en masse and literally nothing changed.
Learn from the past. Arm yourself. You outnumber them easily. They will stop shooting at you, when they look into 100 armed people.
Absolutely not. That’s what he’s hoping will happen.
When is the tipping point though? They can do whatever they want as law does not matter for them anymore but the protesters should stay peaceful.
That’s what he’s hoping will happen.
What are they going to do differently? Start shooting armed civilians instead of shooting unarmed civilians?
They’re going to keep killing peoples regardless.
That is by definition not a protest.
You might want to invest in a dictionary in case you decide to open your mouth and shit out something this stupid in the future.
a strong complaint expressing disagreement, disapproval, or opposition:
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make a protest - Protests have been made by many people who would be affected by the proposed changes.
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protest about - A formal protest was made by the German team about their disqualification from the relay final.
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protest against - Conservation groups have united in protest against the planned new road.
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in protest - Several members walked out of the meeting in protest.
See Also: peaceful protest
Instigating an armed conflict is a protest as much as surgery is a dialogue. That said, I think some armed resistance to the ICE would be warranted, but let’s not pretend words can mean whatever you want them to.
I mean, being armed doesn’t necessarily need to mean you are showing up to be violent. If you bring a firearm to a peaceful protest, with right to carry, and you partake in the peaceful protest, peacefully so, then ICE starts illegally opening fire at you, you should be able to defend yourself.
I think being armed with a non-concealed firearm is explicitly a threat. I think it’s a tactic used egregiously by our enemies and I don’t think it’s particularly effective. I don’t think the ICE is worried that killing you in cold blood is illegal, they generally don’t follow the laws in the first place.
I would assume you would bring a concealed weapon to a peaceful protest for the purpose of self-defense. 😄
Bring a rifle and slinging it on your back would definitely be a provocation/instigation lol
The other user(s) in this comment section is saying they want everyone to bring rifles. For all I know it’s all just Deceptichum’s alt accounts, maybe a couple Russian trolls, but I’m arguing with those people about a completely different subject than what you’re talking about.
Do you need me to point out that nowhere does it say “if you are armed its not a protest” or can we all just agree that your previous statement was full of shit and that you will remember this definition in the future?
A protest is a complaint.
A threat is not a complaint, it’s a threat.
I see that I was wrong to assume that you were ignorant instead of just too stupid to participate in a discussion. That is on my. Bye.
Self-defense is not a threat, and fuck you for trying to pretend otherwise.
I see we have some Kyle Rittenhouse fans in the comments here.
If you bring your gun out to the streets and use it to intimidate people, that is not self-defence.
If protest is by definition peaceful, why then do we need to clarify by declaring something as “peaceful protest”?
For someone obsessed with the meaning of words, you don’t seem to put much effort into understanding them.
We need to clarify because Fox News is constantly trying to classify all protests as Riots. Sometimes, protests do change into something else, they stop being peaceful, but the vast majority are not that.
The term “peaceful protest” massively predates Fox News. We were using the term in the ‘60s, and Fox News was only founded in 1996.
That’s fair there are also other people we need to clarify these things to due to the widespread implication otherwise.
the moment you say protests instigate violence by the perpetrator already invalidates your argument. you should really stop using conservative talking and buzzwords, its not very intelligent conversation.
Conservatives where you live talk about holding Peaceful Protests? Conservatives are talking about ways to oppose the ICE and the larger Trump admin? Really? That’s some weird fucking conservatism, my dude.
The fact you have to put the word “peaceful” in front of “protest” to differentiate it from other types of protest already invalidates your attestment that the word “protest” implies peaceful means.
“Peaceful” is necessitated by the many many many false claims that a protest is anything but.
You kmow why there are many, many claims that protest can be violent?
Becsuse it can be. 🤦♂️
I guess those Buddhists that set themselves on fire in protest is peaceful because they didn’t set others on fire? Despite suicide also being a violent act?
Yeah, your being ridiculously pedantic. The concept of protest dies not actually exclude violence.
I am always extremely pedantic.
Violence is not a complaint or in any way a form of legitimate dialogue.
Just so you know, you’re 100% wrong.
that’s just your opinion
also let’s just be clear here, it is not “violence” (in the sense that you seem to be using it) to protect yourself against violence instigated by others
If ICE force their way onto your property, that’s their violence.
If you force your way onto federal property, that’s your violence.
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Again, the concept of protest is not limited to legitimate dialogue.
I can go all day!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I suppose if you ignore every logical step then you can claim its definition is whatever you want.
We should come up with a word for this. How about an Ig-No Rant? You’re being Ig-no rant.
You should be extremely shut the fuck up
How did the French revolution go, again? One big ole peaceful protest, right?
The French started by uniting the people and bankrupting the state, so I reccomend you start there as well, because if you go into a war with a minority of the public to support you then you’re going to wind up less like the French and more like the Spaniards.
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Look up the black panthers bud. Nothing wrong with armed protesters.
Yeah, tbh, I don’t think they’ve ever done a single thing except get people killed. Were they victims of oppression? Yes. Did they do a goddamn thing about that? No.
I don’t think they’ve ever done a single thing except get people killed.
They’re responsible for some of the strongest gun control legislation currently enabled in America today. What the fuck do you mean you “don’t think they’ve ever done a single thing”?
Yes, but their intention was never gun control, they’re responsible for gun control in largely the same way Purdue Pharma is responsible for the Sackler Act.
You are incredibly ignorant to the community organizing and mutual aid programs that the black panthers created and helped facilitate to provide needed aid to so many neglected, black neighborhoods.
The black panthers created countless programs to provide community-run schools and clinics, food/clothing, legal aid, senior transportation, ambulance services, legal aid and counseling, as well as things like home maintenance and repair services through freely accessible mutual aid initiatives.
And, yes, they also provided community defense against state oppression from racist police forces targeting black communities. Which is something that today’s communities could learn a fucking thing or two from with our current situation.
I’m pretty sure the Black Panthers embezzled more than they spent on charity, thats why they had to murder their secretary in 1974.
Self segregationists did more to harm the welfare of black communities than help them.
Yes, because the party began to schism in its later years, obviously all of the good they did during their decades of activism obviously means nothing.
Also, I didn’t say anything about how they spent their funds, I was speaking about how they verifiably organized communities to exchange their resources and skills freely between each other, not simply fucking “charity”. Learn the difference. I don’t give a single fuck what they did with the money. Money is the least of my concerns.
And lastly, the black panthers were anything but segregationists. They happily worked alongside their white comrades as well as Latino groups and LGBT organizations, plus had a sizable portion of women in their ranks during a time of rampant sexism. The only thing they wanted to be separate from was the oppressive American government and the proponents of its racist as fuck culture.
Were they a perfect organization? No, but no organization is. They existed during a time when they were under constant threat by state and federal forces trying their damnedest to dismantle them. Some within the organization took things in the wrong direction in response to these existential threats, yes, but that says nothing about the good their organization did as a whole.
Black Panthers were segregationists, any claim otherwise is historical revision. When Stokely Carmichael of the Black Panther Party became president of the SNCC he expelled all the white members leading to a sharp decline in donations. BPP has been Segregationist from even before its official formation.
Maybe they should try an insurrection, doesn’t seem to be any crime against that, just white house tours.
That’s what Trump wants, so he can declare martial law and cancel the midterms.
So he going to do the things he’s already doing and that he’s already going to do… he’s only going to do those things if we try to actually stop him from doing thise things… so what we should actually do is submit like cowards, and that will… stop him from doing the things he’s already doing, and is already going to do.
… Got it.
Brilliant strategy.
You don’t seem to understand what is happening here.
He doesn’t need an excuse. He’s going to do it. He needs to be STOPPED.
You need to wake the fuck up and realize the war has already started and refusing to fight just gets you mowed over.
seriously. do people think trump is not gonna rig the elections at this point? he’s been talking about rigging for a decade
He literally said multiple times that he rigged the 2024 elections with the help of Elon, but no one listened because “Trump says crazy things”
The “war” has not already stared but you stupid fucks will hand it to him on a silver platter.
Standing up to the first American king does not a stupid fuck make me.
He’s kidnapped another head of state and is occupying foreign territory. He’s sending military into American cities and killing civilians. What the hell are you on about?
I saw someone say that Americans won’t give a fuck about what their regime is doing, if they invade us, until we start sending their soldiers back in body bags. You’re making me doubt even that.
I sure hope if they send troops to Venezuela that they be met with another Vietnam.
Surely if you’re quiet enough the leopards won’t eat your face.
What more is it going to take for you to realize there’s a lot more at stake here than our own individual comforts?
you are dense. read the writing on the wall
They are already shooting women in the face point blank, and Trump calls the shooter a hero and the victim a domestic terrorist. Burn this motherfucker down.
This is murder, for sure. Not downplaying this crime. But what you’re suggesting would result in tens of thousands of deaths, not one.
You sure are from the middle ages if you’re making excuses for the ones killing thousands in concentration camps right the fuck now.
Yeah don’t worry. This will be last person the Nazis are going to kill. No need to overreact.
You are part of the problem.
This administration is already responsible for way more than tens of thousands of deaths. Tell me, how many people did they deport last year?
This shouldn’t be downvoted. Couldn’t be more obvious what Trump wants and we’re going to hand it to him.
You still think you can show your belly and think Trump and his goons are going to leave you alone?
Are you not even paying attention to what is happening?
They go for the weak FIRST. Do think they are targeting trans people and immigrants because they are afraid of them? No. They are going for them because they are vulnerable.
So your plan is to be as vulnerable as you can be in the hopes that they’ll leave you alone?
Wake the fuck up.
What’s it like being outsmarted by Trump? By doing exactly what he’s trying to get you to do?
You’re not doing shit but typing words on the internet, pussy.
You’re not doing shit but typing words on the internet, pussy.
Are you trying to get them to take action or not? Pick a lane comrade.
It’s okay that you feel sad, it must be hard to realize that the world didn’t need you at all.
You know what Trump wants even more than people to resist him? For people to let him do whatever he wants without resistance.
I guess you’re not part of a minority? Do you realize he’s already arresting, detaining, deporting and killing people right?
First the immigrants, then the people of color (we are here?), then the LGBT, then the leftists, and then whoever disagrees with him.
At which step do you say stop? Or will you keep saying “no let him put trans people into mental wards, all he wants is us to fight back!”? And when finally they come for you, will you still be passive?
He wants to be a king. I think we should stop him.
How? By giving an excuse to lock down the country with the military?
Maybe if wanted to stop him, we should have voted for Harris.
If he actually cancels the midterms, you might have an argument. Right now, you’re just too stupid to avoid doing exactly what he wants you to do.
By giving an excuse to lock down the country with the military?
He has already deployed military within the country. Not resisting has not prevented him from doing it anyway.
I mean, he’s gonna cancel them either way.
Why don’t wait to see if that’s true instead of taking your word for it before descending chaos into society?
How many times has he said he is going to have a third term? How has ‘wait and see’ worked out for us so far?
Good luck arming yourself against a trillion dollar worth army
I mean, the Vietnamese and the Iranians, and the Iraqi, and the Afghani, have managed pretty well for all those billions. You know the Pentagon also can’t even pass a simple audit? We might be good, depending on how many $25k paper shredders the geniuses have been convinced to buy by their totally honest and not greedy contractors.
Weird, cause I only see three guys in this video.
At which point you now give them free rein to just switch to auto and hose down the crowd.
Welcome to the joys of protesting. Unless you are going geared up for a riot, all protests are inherently “peaceful protests” where you are standing with your hands tied behind your back waiting for the blow. Because if you fight back any more than what is socially acceptable (often times pushing against riot shields), you will die. And so will everyone around you. And the people down the street. And that couple who were unfortunate enough to live above the bodega on 5th street.
ICE will not show up if people actually shoot back. They only act like this because they believe they are invincible.
Probably not. But the national guard and the army will. I recommend looking up the Tulsa massacre as well as all the times we have slaughtered Native Americans by the dozens (and that is just in the US).
How well has the army done against guerrilla warfare?
Psychotic gun-nut argumennts
Vietnam is on the other side of the planet and were supported by the Soviet Union.
Such a stupid fucking argument.
Here’s another bot commenting 46 times telling us to swallow boot.
Do you really not think there will be outside involvement when things go tits up?
If there is one thing the right is correct about it is about keeping the guns.
Are we really fucking doing this again?
Go look up what flock cameras are. And understand there are plenty more where that came from. We live in a surveillance state. So when you and your friends run out of nowhere to scream “wildcats” and shoot up the cops? They’ll fairly trivially track you to your home where you, your family, and the people down the street can be massacred at the leisure of the army.
And yes, yes, I know. You and all your friends are going to coordinate to destroy every single camera all at the same time so that nobody can ever track you. And you’ll aim your rifle in the sky and take out the satellites overhead. And you’ll do all of this without ever having to coordinate with another human being because, if you actually knew how to do that, you wouldn’t be speaking like a child and would realize you aren’t the only person with these fears and those community organizers are well aware of things.
Or they’ll just take a page from the israelis and blow up a random apartment complex because there were black people and The Gays in there. They were probably the shooters, right?
That’s a good first step. One of the best things we can do to fight back is make sure we have cameras that report to us, and that don’t report to them.
We decided what our cameras are used for. Not them.
Homie was right, you’re a coward.
Long pole with a spray can on one end is classic anti camera tech.
super strange argument you have, “these people are oppressive and totally powerful, and we should do nothing.”
whats the end goal of your ideology?
That would be a strange argument to have. I don’t know what the scarecrow’s deal is, but that isn’t at all what I am saying.
To summarize: if you bring weapons to a protest, you are not protesting, you are rioting. And if you bring weapons with the intent to kill (basically the only way a firearm is useful to “protect” from another firearm), you are literally a terrorist. That results in a VERY VERY different response.
Is there a time and a place for that response? I am not going to answer that on lemmy. But understand that most people at that protest are there to make their voices heard and don’t expect to soak up bullets for john rambo. And if it becomes known that is what happens because someone is always gonna bring a gun? Those protesters stay home
Both of which were unarmed when slaughtered
It’s like everyone has forgotten why the Black Panthers showed up to protests armed.
Some level of law enforcement is going to have to respond if there’s open gunfire in the streets.
What did they do at Uvalde Texas again?
How is this a point? So fucking stupid.
That ONE event doesn’t predict any other event.
A half dozen or so armed citizens on ICE watch in every neighborhood will have a chilling effect on their bullshit pretty fucking quick.
And if not? If not, then you’re already so far gone that you have no choice but to fight.
and then what?
I dunno. Maybe you should consider showing your local community and protest organizers you are trustworthy and talk to them about it? Not in a form that is trivially scrapable by anyone who can vibecode a spider?
Fucking scrape me. If I’m not on multiple lists by now then I’ve been doing something horribly wrong.
How did compliance work out for that lady in her car?
They don’t need a fucking reason.
We are past the point where being “one of the good ones” makes you less likely to get killed. Time to be a hard target instead of a victim.
If you think that lady in her car is the worst that can happen and that we no longer need to show any restraint, then you have a profound lack of knowledge of history. If a group of citizens start raiding federal offices, the military are going to get involved in defence of the federal offices.
And maybe that’s okay, honestly, maybe we do need to make a stand when things like this happen, but be fucking prepared and be honest about what’s about to happen because it will not be pretty.
We’re going to recreate Tiananmen Square. We may zip right past Kent State.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. People really can’t handle uncomfortable truths. They’ve never seen war, don’t know what it’s like. It probably hasn’t clicked for them yet that they don’t get to respawn when they die. They don’t understand the unfathomable amount of pain that comes with getting shot. They don’t comprehend how irrevocable any act of violence is, or the responsibility that comes with permanently altering the course of history.
I mean sure, something needs to be done, but these people don’t stand a chance against a militarized police force with modern equipment and a virtually unlimited budget.
They don’t understand the level of coordination it would take, the organization and the discipline required. The manpower, the combat experience, the heavy equipment. Small arms wouldn’t cut it. They’re not prepared. They don’t understand what sort of preparation that sort of thing would require.
These are the same idiots who were saying before the election, “it’s better if trump wins because it will hasten the revolution.” Damn fools, there is no revolution. Not one that can succeed. The time to stop this was on election day, and we failed, because idiots like these thought call of duty was real life.
And then they downvote you for telling them war isn’t pretty. Pathetic.
“People don’t know that they don’t respawn when they die”
What kind of Gamerslop bullshit is this. Yes, people know that when you die you’re dead.
This also reeks of defeatism. “Our chance was election day and they ruined it.”
Fuck all the way off with that bullshit.
I said it hasn’t clicked for them jackass. Knowing something as an abstract concept is completely different from knowing it in your bones. Have you ever had bullets fly over your head? Cause I have. Real bullets, not pixels on a screen.
But if you know more about it than I do, by all means, go ahead and overthrow the fascist regime. But if you’re gonna sit on your ass instead, then at least stop acting brave on the internet. You’re embarrassing yourself.
by all means, go ahead and overthrow the fascist regime. But if you’re gonna sit on your ass instead, then at least stop acting brave on the internet.
So you think people should be taking action?
To be honest I don’t think all of the downvotes are legitimate, I’m sure the pro-Russian and pro-Chinese are tipping the scales in these discussions to promote violence whenever possible.
This administration has been promoting violence. We are promoting self defense.
What you’re promoting and what the Trump admin wants align pretty well enough. What’s going to happen if you don’t have as much public support as possible, is not riding in like the cavalry and scaring the ICE off, far from it, those ICE offices will end up staying open and Trump will use the excuse to grab as much local authority as possible.
If you want to close those offices, for good, then you need the people of the cities, the judges, the city hall, as many people as possible to call for the closure and for the Police Department to enforce those rulings. If you don’t think that’s possible, look to Portland right now for inspiration: they’re out tonight in the thousands.
That would make sense. Explains all these tough-guy keyboard warriors calling everybody cowards while also not doing anything about it themselves…
Pay for my ticket to the other side of the country. You won’t.
The reality is that they are scared and they are privileged.
They’ve never felt helpless before. They’ve never actually been impacted by the horrors that others… kind of just live with. To them? Cops are the enemy but they are also who you call when your neighbor’s party is a bit too loud.
So they had their first experience of fear and helplessness. And they need to DO SOMETHING about it. Which makes them think of all their role models like John McClane and John Rambo and John Halo. Maybe they’ve even shot a gun a few times and figure they know what they are doing. They’re gonna do something and they’re gonna do it all by themselves and anyone who doesn’t is a coward.
But also, episode 8 of Stranger Things is tonight so maybe next month? But all you fuckers who are talking about maybe talking to organizers and getting involved with their community? THOSE are the real cowards!
Being downvoted for the truth.
Not generally how downvotes work.
And that was one lady just like it is always one person. It is not cops and their fat white kid friends indiscriminately firing upon crowds of civilians like it is naptime for Miss Smart’s kindergarten class. Which is what we see during some of the more historic massacres.
I know you’re scared. We all are. But if you are taking a gun to a protest you are not just putting your own life in danger but EVERY single life at that protest. That is why the more experienced organizers keep an eye out for that and will grab your ass and drag you into an alley if they realize you are packing (and not an undercover cop).
I strongly encourage talking to those organizers. I am not going to discuss it on lemmy but rest assured that we are all aware of this.
Your unwillingness to fight for you community is embarrassing. Stay home.
You talk really tough for someone who hasn’t done anything about it. If you have, it surely would have caught some headlines, and you probably wouldn’t be alive to post about it. We’d probably all be commenting on a video of you getting taken out by 20x as many cops. And if you were in a crowd of people, likely many would be taken out with you.
So if you do decide to put your money where your mouth is, just be sure to do it far away from peaceful protestors and any bystanders.
Until then, stop calling people cowards, you coward.
Ok I’ll call people cowards then, I managed to square off with the SPD, along with a number of other Seattleites, a number of years back, and…
We managed to cause them to retreat from their regional precinct HQ, burned all the documents they couldn’t take with them, and fucking abandoned it.
But sure, yeah, go on, tell me more about how direct action can’t work.
The entire fucking point is that you organize as something like a guerllia force, not that you just try to ‘one man operator’ this shit.
You need discipline, organization, tactics, actual physical capability, opsec, etc.
A lone wolf is a suicide by cop.
Yeah, don’t do that, duh?
Oh and no, there aren’t any identifiable videos of me.
… Because I am not a moron.
Fuck off, you think we don’t see the fresh 7, 15 day old accounts all advocating for bootlicking.
I made my account a week ago after I got my ip permabanned from reddit for telling russian bots to fuck off too many times.
What I’m doing here isn’t bootlicking, what I’m doing is telling you to stop calling people cowards for not doing things that you’re also not doing…
I appreciate that everyone is skeptical of all comments here.
And I’m glad people express that skepticism.
It’s very clear there’s manipulation here. And if you think you’re immune, you shouldn’t be participating in anonymous social media.
But I do appreciate that there are some people here to fight against the bots and threats to democracy, both foreign and domestic. Even if we can’t tell who they are or what is manipulation and what is honest.
Be careful what you post. Be aware. Be skeptical. Talk to people in real life, because even if it’s just people at the corner shop, that’s a hell of a lot more valuable than here.
You’ve put a awful lot of thought into justifying being a pussy. Is that the story your telling your kids when this is over?
Have you done anything that I haven’t? You act like you’re so brave and tough. Show me the headlines where you did anything about it.
Your canned lines are tired. And yes, you’re a coward.
Nice deflection. You’re a coward too, the difference between you and me is that you’re pretending to be better than everyone else.
Canned lines? You haven’t done shit. And if you do, make sure you don’t get other people killed who didn’t agree to be part of it. Canned lines.
You’re right though, I am tired. Peace out dude.
Sure. That’s it.
Please avoid any protests where people don’t know you’ll be taking your emotional support assault rifle that you’ll obviously quickdraw with to kill the cops before they kill you. Because you are the best at call of duty.
These are conversations better had offline.
No. If somebody is going to be the asshole going strapped to a protest, that should very much be a very public discussion. So that others can take the appropriate precautions.
Because in the time it takes for the organizers to decide if that dumbfuck is an undercover cop or someone who is going to get everyone killed? The cops might see the bulge too.
Remember to take credit for the work that the rest of us do once this shit is over, just like every other coward that acts like they are helping when its safe.
Studies show that violent actions or rhetoric are much less successful than peaceful movements, due to the many undecided people choosing to cooperate with the victimized.
But just like the civil rights movement, you violent fucks feel free to ride on our coat tails.
compliance would have been surrendering and opening the door.
That’s completely false, they told her to leave.
Stop fucking lying.
oh boy, i didnt know that, i only heard what he said
Oh that justifies the murder then.
Guarantee you won’t be in the thick of it.
Lot of “tough guy” internet warriors with zero consideration of pointlessly destructive that would be.
Pay attention to what the rest of us do so you know what stories to make up so your kids didn’t learn what a useless pussy you were when it mattered.
I already see what you’re doing. Typing words on the internet instead of doing anything. You’re pathetic and useless.
If only what Trump and ice were doing got you as mad as criticism of your advocacy for compliance and cowardness.
Trump and ICE do make me mad, which is why I don’t support stupidly doing things that obviously serve their purposes.
Go back to demanding other people die while you sit on your ass and do nothing. Not supporting random, indiscriminate and disorganized violence isn’t “compliance and cowardice”, it’s not being a mindless fucking dumbass, pussy internet warrior.
We need more self-defense classes against ICE agents. For Renee.
Not just a paintball. A pepper spray round.
Kill agents on sight
We should make KAOS a thing.
Wishing for someones death is horrible. You can do better.
With that logic we should be much more aware of the life of animals we kill on an industrial scale similar as the Holocaust. Just because of the taste (we do not need animal based nutrition).
I’d argue the life of a peaceful cow is worth more than that of a hateful Nazi that wants people of certain mindset or skin-color dead or detained.
So why should we care more about the life of nazis that want to make life for everyone (but Nazis) worse (also considering e.g. Climate-Change). We already have too many people, we don’t need scum around…
All fascists need to either stop being fascists or die. There is no middle ground with ideology that at the core seeks to exterminate entire groups of people. You aren’t born as a fascist, it’s an ideology you choose to support; these people are evil. If they won’t stop being evil, there is no other options than them being killed. It’s either them or an unimaginable number of people as their victims. There is no moral high ground here
In the end everyone wants to love and be loved. Most hatefull people like you or the facists you want to kill act out of fear of losing the things/people that they love. We could simply focus more ob what we want instead of what we don’t want.
There’s no more room for that hippie shit. We need to arm ourselves.
They just murdered a woman in cold blood. You’re not scared?
Nah, I obviously don’t want to kill them, quite the opposite. I’d like nothing more than a peaceful world with no war or atrocities. But this is not an ideal world where we can hold hands and sing kumbaya to make the evil to go away, we have to defend what’s good or it is destroyed.
Ok so you fear to take responsability for your comments by saying that someone else should kill them. You see that this is no different from the ones you blame? You don’t need to be like them. You can do better.
Is death really the only way you see? What can you do to make a difference?
Why are you putting words in my mouth? I will kill and likely die if the war ever comes to my doorstep and I have to. Would you have just let the nazis win ww2 then? There’s no point in both-siding when the choices are either evil or fighting against it. It’s pretty obvious which side any decent person will take
Edit// To answer your edits; death is obviously not the only way I see - I said it in the first message already, they can always stop being fascist before it is too late. What we can do to make difference is stop fascists taking power in the first place. We can be better people, help our neighbors, pay taxes, support public healthcare and minimum wages, vote for people who don’t support fascism… But when the fascists are already taking over? There’s very few choices in those moments, since they will use violence once they believe they’ll win. It’s in the core of fascism itself
Exactly. You can’t out-nice a group that doesn’t value nice. Tolerant societies cannot tolerate intolerance, the old paradox.
Well, what are you waiting for?
I’ve got my plans, which are non-violent but disruptive. If I were in the position of the people in these videos and had a gun, I cannot say that I would walk away peacefully or alive.
I currently don’t have a gun, so that stops me from committing violence to protect my community, but the times of peaceful opposition are winding thin.
I will watch carefully the legal prosecution, or not, of this ICE agent, and what you post online to poke and prod will have no bearing on that outcome or the decision I make at those times, so shut the fuck up.
What are you doing?
Edit - And that’s the thing isn’t it? I’m supporting non-violent, disruptive behavior, and the administration and ICE are now clearly communicating that activity as a capital offense deserving of murder. You’re on that side? Miss me with that shit.
ICE has been overrun with psychopaths.
All these masked up garbage humans were all whining like toddlers about masking up during covid.
Was that a paint ball or a pepper ball?
I’ve seen a lot of US lemmynauts being clueless about what to do to improve things and fight against the political situation. I understand that it doesn’t come naturally if it’s not in your culture so I’ve written the following. Feel free to suggest better ideas, alternatives and so on:
Here’s what I’d do:
- Join a union
- Join a political party or an organization that is not one of the sellouts
- Join any canal you can find that informs about protests, strikes and other actions
- Educate yourself on the actual methods of protesting, what works or doesn’t work, what you should do or not
- Organize these infos if needed and share them around
- Equip yourself, take a dumb phone, take liquid eye cleaners droplets (no idea how it’s called in english), take something to cover your nose and mouth against tear gas, take some kind of eye protection
- Learn your rights, what to do and learn a specific lawyer phone number (by heart) in case of arrest
- Relay those links, organizations and everything around yourself
- If it’s available to you and in line with your ethics, arm yourself before they confiscate weapons to politically awake citizens - and of course, start training yourself
This above is the easy part you can do from your couch. Then:
- Follow and participate to your union/party/organization events/meet-ups/flyer distribution/cybermilitantism/…, try to help them in the ways you can. You have a car? Offer to bring food to the meet-ups. You’re following the news 24/7? Offer to set up a RSS feed or some kind of news aggregator with what’s important in your area and all the shit that’s happening. You’re good with computers? Help those that want it to install a linux distro instead of spyware OS…
It is very important to find or create networks of people around you that are decided to help improve the situation, as they can help you in case you need it. It doesn’t even mean that you have to join dangerous action (you define what’s dangerous for you), but even just signalling to the people that will act that they are not alone by being one more person in the group is already a boost for everyone, especially if you help them in some ways.
Then, as much as you can, participate in the group’s actions, and evangelize the group’s existence around you.
What if there’s no action? Try to push for it in the meet-ups. Start with something easy. Tracts distribution, door-to-door to offer help and support around your neighborhood and make the group known, sentry in your communities to signal ICE/dangerous individuals raids and presence, offer to be a contact or to help people that might be targeted next, create workshops to rewrite the constitution in a way that would make it better for everyone, organize debates where people of different opinions actually listen to each others… The group needs to build confidence by actively doing something useful together. And it can stop here if people in the group have cold feet for more - it’s already great. Once the group is created and solid, it will be able to change direction if needed by the political climate.
Next steps if people are motivated: actual political activism. Protests, sit-ins, happenings, guerrilla urbanism, petitions, blocking highways, or going to talk to people in power… The research you’ve done in the first steps should give you ideas of what you can do, and how to do it. Advice from a french protester: keep things joyful. Our protests are always a happy moment (up until the cops come and hit us), we’re singing, we’re dancing, we’re having fun. It shouldn’t be a chore to be there, and if possible the action should make people want to join you. It helps grow the movement, it helps grow the links between people, it gives a good image of the movement.
And what if there is no group like that around you? (Well I can’t believe there is no union, but ok.) Then build one! Start small, with people in your community, with people that work at the food bank, with people you’ve met at the No Kings protests or something.
You cannot succeed as individuals. This is political, and political is the action of the many. Join the many, help increase the many, create the many if needed. The more numerous you are, the stronger you will be.
