I would never go back to ICE. But I do miss driving a car with a clutch sometimes.
ah yes americans and their acronyms, Internal Combustion Engine I’m guessing
Same. I love my EV as a commuter machine but I do miss having a more engaging car. If I can ever afford it I’d love to have a little weekend car like a Miata in addition to an EV that I drive 90% of the time.
Also same. I can even afford an older used Miata if I squint. But man, where would I put the thing? We’ve fortunate enough to have two cars, but storing a third would be very awkward. The current EV charger location means my car must be parked in the garage. My wife will not be bumped out and shuffling cars seems like a massive PITA.
I also live in SE MI and our roads are firmly grid oriented. I moved here daily driving a 96 Miata and got very little joy out of driving it here.
I don’t have a garage so any car I own would be living outside, right along with my EV and its charger. But it sounds like you wouldn’t get any joy out of having a sports car so I think the best solution for you is to just not.
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There’s something to be said for not going to gas stations. Ever.
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No shit, people that wanted a boring car got a boring car and are satisfied with their boring car. Has anyone even claimed people are abandoning their EVs?
Not that I mean boring as a slight, many people see their car as just a utility. It gets them from point A to point B maybe to point C then back to A at the end of the day.
People that enjoy driving or “car culture” are going to have little interest outside of performance hybrids or electrified classics.I’m not sure that’s true. Maybe for like a Nissan leaf or something but the guys rolling around in cars with like the plaid performance packages and stuff are enjoying the road and teleporting over it. Getting motorcycle torque on demand in a sedan is pretty neat.
That is admittedly not every EV owner though.
I’ve tried them, and I despise touch screen controls. I don’t want to go through menus to change settings.
This is a problem for newer gas vehicles also, the newest car I drive is a 2024 and I despise it. Constant beeping, changing settings reverts with an update, and so on.
If they make an electric car with analog controls and door handles, I’m in. But until then, my favorite vehicle is a 2008 ride with working buttons that don’t reset.
My EV has buttons for most stuff, and the rest of it I can use the screen, or just tell the car to do stuff
I’m lucky enough to live in a civilised country, so I have a BYD that yanks cannot yet buy
Yeah, that’s where I’m at, too. Though I’m caught between intending to drive my current car (2013) into the ground or trying to get something a bit newer (like 2018 or even newer) where I can find a pre-enshitification model to push off the “car dies and I have no choice” date.
2017 BMW i3, original version. Can’t do shit, I upgraded with Android Auto and a rear camera. Just… the doors… But otherwise I love it.
If they make an electric car with analog controls and door handles, I’m in.
That’s been part of the pitch for the Slate
Modern cars have more options than ever, no analog control can cover them all. That’s why menus are needed. That said, some newer cars do have analog controls too, combustion and EVs.
I’ve owned an EV for a while now, and it has been a great car, but I share the same complaints. Almost every car these days, regardless if it’s EV or ICE, is an over-engineered data-harvester.
I’m excited for the new Slate trucks. They’ll have physical buttons, roll down windows, real door handles, and no infotainment system that tracks you and sells your data. They won’t be perfect, but it’s a lot closer to what I actually want in a vehicle.
We rented an Ionic 5 for the weekend and I will be going back to gas because… uh, it’s rented.
Real talk, though, we’re trying to find a good EV because it is better. I don’t particularly like the Ionic 5, but that’s mostly a hatred for crossovers than anything; also the severe lack of clicky buttons and stuff like automatic mirror dimming that isn’t working right. Ugh.
I just wish we had more options in the States, especially without the touch screen nonsense.
One of the reasons I got my BYD was because of the clicky buttons. Yes, I have the big touchscreen, but all the car controls have a clicky button that I can feel and touch without looking at a screen. Hell, even for the things that don’t have a clicky button (like A/C temperature) you only need to swipe up or down with three fingers on any part of the screen to adapt it so there is nothing you need to find in the screen to drive the car.
I have a 2019 Nissan Leaf and it was manufactured at the perfect in between time of still having physical buttons, without the surveillance tech inside, while also having the ‘basic’ fancy features like Android Auto, backup can, etc.
I think ideally, I would have liked am EV conversion kit for my 2006 Scion xB, but it wasn’t in the cards at the time.
It does seem like the physical buttons are making a comeback.
Here’s hoping. I’d look into even a used option like that, but I’m also hoping we get new battery tech in the next year or two. Not that I mind 350W charger speeds, though.
I test drove the ioniq 5 when it came out and its problem, to me, wasn’t even that it’s a stupid tall hatchback (barely a crossover even). It’s that the suspension setup makes it both uncomfortable AND unsporty. No idea if they changed it in later models, but they wouldn’t have fundamentally changed the entire setup anyway, only fine-tuning.
When the test drive was over, I sat back into my W211 and that was much more comfortable. Way slower and sluggish, but it was smoother on rough roads, and yet I actually felt where the grip was when going into a corner fast. That car was manufactured in 2003, the Ioniq 5 was a 2020 or 2021 model.
I ended up getting a lightly used W205 C-Class instead, staying with diesel. It was half the price of a brand new Ioniq 5 (since those weren’t available used)
But I’m not trying to tell you to buy an ICE vehicle like I did back then, I’m just saying that a lightly used executive car that still has warranty is going to be significantly nicer to drive than a brand new budget car. At the end of the day, you’re looking at EVs, battery warranty is 8 years anyway. Get a 2-3 year old one, sell it when the warranty is starting to end (degradation isn’t a real issue anymore, but sudden battery cell death can still be).
I’m honestly surprised anyone rents electrics. I love owning one, but recharging would be obnoxious when traveling to a new place and having to juggle half a dozen different charging apps and a charger probably requiring you to go to a Walmart and sit for half an hour.
Can confirm, but we wanted a challenge and it hasn’t been that bad with just one app. We even had terrible luck and had to change plans and find another spot (diesel truck overturned, which is ironic when gas is the reason your EV trip got sidetracked lol).
I imagine having reliable charging at home and work makes it braindead.
I love owning one, but recharging would be obnoxious when traveling to a new place and having to juggle half a dozen different charging apps and a charger probably requiring you to go to a Walmart and sit for half an hour.
When I see complaints like this, I read it as, “I’m a reckless driver who should have their license taken away.” If you’re taking long road trips and not stopping every 4-6 hours for a 20-30 minute break, you shouldn’t be allowed to own a vehicle at all. You’re a danger to yourself and everyone around you.
Hi, I routinely drive 12+ hours only stopping for gas and bathrooms. It’s fun, and what I do for vacations, and I will never stop. I’ve been doing this since I was a teenager and have never been in a car crash because I’m an absurdly safe driver compared to most people on the roads. I think you have a really extreme view of what safe car driving looks like.
I assume you also grew up in Lake Wobegon, where all the children are above average.
That’s an incredibly weird take. How did you get to that from a complaint about how hard it was to find a decent charger?
My example wasn’t even about a long drive, just being in a town with only 3 high speed chargers and over the course of a week I got to drive well out of my way and sit and wait for a turn at the Walmart twice. If I’d had a gas car I could’ve filled up at the many many stations nearby so it was an example of why I still wouldn’t rent one when traveling. Hell lookup driving to Yellowstone for an easy example of a route with limited chargers for the large number of summer tourists.
Did you miss the part where I love actually owning one?
Maybe it’s an LLM bot set to act contrarian?
stopping every 4-6 hours for a 20-30 minute break
An EV that drives for 6h and is charged up in 30min? This has to be an hallucination.
It would be great to have this kind of range though.
You only discover there absurd insanity of the charging market once you drive an EV.
Here you’ll stop at charging stations that proudly state they got incentive money (aka your tax €) from the EU and then ask for >1€ per kWh - unless you are a subscriber, then it’s 15% less. If you are a paid subscriber the rebate is more than 50%. Then you check the roaming service of one of your many subscriptions it’s 2€/kWh.
It’s like streaming but way
more exploitativeshittier. I think this needs needs government regulation and companies abusing EU incentives should pay back every cent including compound interest immediately.More chargers are getting tap-to-pay every day, so it is getting easier.
Also, while I doubt electric charging will be as fast as gas within this generation of vehicles (the required voltage would be rather insane), the EV guys I see online suggest charging to 75% or so because it gets you out of there in half the time. It means slightly more frequent stops, but also makes them not much longer than a bathroom break and snack run.
Oh really? That’s good to hear. The requiring an account and app thing was such nonsense.
Made a road trip 2 years ago and the charge time itself was never an issue, it was more the limited chargers and people on slow charging older EVs keeping them tied up for so long.
It is extremely annoying that here I am nearly 8 years later, and the Model 3 is the still the only real choice if you want a compact sedan EV. I don’t want to buy another one, but for the love of God, every other option sucks, is impossible to get, or costs $30k more than a Model 3
Yeah, would prefer my Volt be a sedan instead of a hatchback. I’ve not planned to replace it yet, but I hope there are more that one manufacturer offering EV sedans in the U.S. when I do go to replace it.
Would a Kia EV6 or a Jaguar I-Pace be options?
Both the EV6 and the I-Pace are crossovers, more wagon-like than sedanlike. And the I-Pace was discontinued in 2024.
In terms of a true sedan, the Polestar 2 (also discontinued), the BMW i4, and the Lucid Air are options, but they’re significantly more expensive than a Tesla Model 3.
I want aware that the car has to be brand new as OP never stated that.
Call me a Heather but if the EV6 isn’t sedan-like enough, the Tesla 3 isn’t either.
A Lucid Air plays in a whole different league as It probably beats the Tesla S. However there’s a risk the company itself might be discontinued.
There’s a bunch of Chinese brands that deliver - they might not be available in the US or are tariffed out of budget range.
I want aware that the car has to be brand new as OP never stated that.
No, but I’m pointing out that cars that have been discontinued will not increase in number, so they’ll be harder to find on the used market over time.
Like the parent comment, I’ve rented a Hyundai Ioniq 5 a few times, and liked the way it drove. But it is so ugly I’d never buy it for myself. The EV6 is nice, and I agree it’s quite close to a sedan.
The Polestar 2 is great. Drives like a sedan. Undisputably a sedan. But its manufacturer is in a weird regulatory limbo, there weren’t a lot of 2s sold, and I personally find the clicking of the turn signal annoying. Also a bit expensive for its specs, even on the used market.
I think we’ll eventually see Kia/Hyundai/Genesis, Toyota/Lexus, and maybe Volkswagen and BMW compete in this sedan space with new cars. But for now, most car manufacturers selling in the US seem to be focused on SUVs and crossovers.
Hell, it’s hard to find subcompacts here at all. I’m willing to abandon my U-turn machines for electric when my car dies, but I’d really rather not. Fuck I love having a miniscule turning radius
I leased an Ioniq 5 SEL for three years and loved it (other than it being an SUV).
When the lease ran out, I bought a used 2024 Ioniq 6 SE which has 360 mile range and almost every feature of the SEL. It was super cheap and it suits me even better than the Ioniq 5.
It’s probably worth checking out if you like EVs.
That was my thought, the Ionic 6 looks solid and more like my Ford Fusion Hybrid I’ve been driving for a decade.
180,000 MILES on my EV! Best purchase I’ve ever made. The amount of money saved on maintenance and fuel (got free charging at work and now a neighborhood hub has a free charger). Love it!!
I’m sure I’d like them but I love my manual transmission turbo 4. I turn 50 next year and my 2017 is still doing OK. With any luck, I can still get another manual transmission as the last car I personally drive. Hoping that by my late 60s self driving will be good and cheap enough to rely on.
But do stay alert. O&G and combustion car manufactures are spending billions on propaganda to make you change your mind.
Even mechanics, gas station attendants, and car dealers will spin records to make EVs look bad and turn you into their next customer.
I will go back to gas for one reason only. I want a backup bush truck with little to no tech in it so if shit goes south I still have a vehicle that can’t be shut down easily and fixed easily.
Just have to find the right Tacoma, T100, or 4Runner.
What’s your plan for fuel then? Shit goes down, so does gas.
Well the best thing would be a diesel Hilux. But those are extremely hard to find.
Mostly just a dream. We have two vehicles already, the idea of throwing money towards a third vehicle and insurance on the off chance we live long in an apocalypse is fanciful.
An EV is a hell of a lot better apocalypse option than an ICE vehicle. The last thing you’re going to want to be doing in such a scenario is wasting your little precious food turning it into biodiesel. Just get some solar panels and charge your car’s battery that way.
Right, the vehicle that relies on the operational power grid is more apocalypse proof.
You have very poor reading comprehension and logical faculties.
Solar won’t charge a car at a practical useful rate unless you have soul access to a large grid. Poor they may be, at least I have the faculties.
You have a profound misunderstanding of how much panel area is required to power an EV. You don’t need acres of solar panels. You don’t need a large power grid. A carport with some solar panels and a clear view of the sky is more than enough to power a regular modern commute, let alone the limited amount of driving you would have to do in a collapse scenario.
And again, in what universe is having a few solar panels on your property more difficult that trying to make your own liquid fuels? In a collapse of civilization scenario, your highest and hardest challenge is just growing enough food to eat. And the only options for making your own liquid fuels are biofuels like ethanol and biodiesel. If you’re trying to scrape together a subsistence diet in a collapse scenario, the last thing you would ever want to do is to turn your scarce calories into biodiesel.
I really do not understand your logic at all. In today’s world, if you live in a single family suburban home, it is completely impossible for you to power your own ICE vehicle. Even if you dedicated your entire lot to growing soy or corn to make biofuel, there simply isn’t enough surface area available. Hell, just putting solar panels on the land we currently use in the US to make corn ethanol would be enough to power the entire US vehicle fleet turned 100% to EVs. Meanwhile, millions of people currently drive EVs powered entirely by the solar arrays they have on their roofs. I know you don’t need access to a large grid to power an EV, as millions of people are already powering their EVs off grid with just a few panels on their rooftops. Have you seriously never heard of this before?
Just how do you plan to keep your gas car running in a collapse scenario? There won’t be anyone selling gas or diesel.
Look, I’m going to attempt to do the compassionate thing here. I’m going to assume you’re acting in good faith but simply out of ignorance. I know it’s long, but you really need to watch this video by technology connections. Please don’t complain about the length. Be an adult, not a child. I’m trying to help you here. You need to watch this. It will clear up a lot of the misunderstandings you have about the practical realities of owning and powering EVs and the societal-level logistics involved.
I can forgive ignorance, but not wilful ignorance. I’ve now given you the tools to improve yourself, but now you will have to make the choice between being willfully ignorant or properly informed on this topic. I hope you can be a good person and make the right choice. My pessimistic side is guessing that you’ll choose to remain comfortable in your ignorance, but hope springs eternal. Perhaps you can be saved.
Because they can’t sell?
What are people reading online? I have never seen anything about EV drivers going to gas. An EV is not cheap and most people I know stick with them even if terrible.
This seems like bait.
There is a section of the internet that is very loudly anti-EV. I think it’s a MAGA-aligned movement. If you watch a lot of EV-related stuff on YouTube, as I have been doing in recent months, the “quitting EVs” videos will pop up eventually.
I mean I hate how silly and connected EVs are, I can see the hate to a degree (I am also too broke to buy one). But I have not seen people who have already bought one say they dislike it.
Is that an EV problem, or a modern car problem? Modern ICE cars also have massive displays, OTA updates, etc. I’m not sure EVs are much worse.
Oh for sure, I hate EVs due to them being new and shit nothing to do with being electric. I also hate new ICE vehicles for the same reason. I wanted an EV myself but short of making my own so far there is nothing I would ever own (maybe soon?).
I tried a few years ago for example to move to an EV motorcycle but found they don’t make one that is not stupid, I need to ride 250km one way, spend the night and ride back. The route I take has zero service (like zero not just chargers but no gas, food or washrooms) stations for the last 190km so I would need about 300km range for it to work. Thought that would be doable since I don’t need to go the speed of plaid and don’t care about my 0-100km time, but nope, they don’t make any EV bikes like that. They all are direct drive (no gearing) torque monsters built to go so fast your skin will come off. They even make some they claim are for adventures but have 150km range. The ones I looked at all have better city then highway efficiency do to them being geared like toys, They could have made one with a higher gear ratio (since the high rpms seem to require a stupid about of heat management at highway speeds) but noooooo, not one on the market is a real vehicle.
I have been looking into EVs myself recently, but the secondhand market here still prices me out for now. In a way, I am content with that as it means I can enjoy my aging 2005 Forester for longer. I have a feeling I will badly miss the manual transmission and low tech, low distraction feel when I eventually switch over. Anything from around the mid-2010s onwards seems to be when cars started going massively downhill in terms of the cabin experience.
That “article” is just a link to a 25 minute video. I’m not going to wade through a 25 minute video to find out what points they make.
But let’s get real… The first thing people compare when they go from ICE to EV is how it affects their everyday lives. And immediately, plugging something in when you get home is far easier than going to a gas station.
Most drivers need short range vehicles for daily commutes. EV is just the far superior answer.
That’s the first thing that everybody notices when they get their first EV. Once, I had to use an ICE rental car, and it just felt so silly going to the gas station.
My truck has been in the shop all summer, I’m driving a hybrid rental in the mean time and I feel like I’m using a Flintstones car. I miss my truck and I miss having electric even more.
Why has it been in the shop for months?
Likely a Ferd.
Rivian
Bezos truck. No reason why they have parts shortages.
It’s a Rivian and waiting on parts is a bitch.
That’s one of the electric vehicles that interests me but from the little I’ve read the company is horribly managed. I’ve no interest in a vehicle that could have no parts support in a few years.
Thats basically what every poll/study I ever read online said…
A lot of EV people forget that most of us don’t have $20,000 for a car, let alone a used one. The cheapest EV’s as of today around me are $19,000 and have between 80k-120k miles on them. I bought my 2007 car for $5,500 11 years ago and i’ve put roughly $2200 in repairs into it, $1700 of that was for a complete suspension rebuild, so it would be much lower. My last car i had for 9 years, i put maybe $300 in repairs on it, and that was just brakes and fluids.
So i personally wont be amazed by an EV that has less maintenance, i would love to have the ability to charge/fuel up at home, and not wait at gas stations, that would be an awesome thing.
Once one of my ICE vehicles costs too much to repair, i hope EV’s are more in the $10-15k range with lower miles. At that point the lack of gas would help offset the large investment up front. And yes, i know $15k is not considered a large investment for most EV drivers, but for those of us who don’t make more than $20 an hour, it’s a HUGE investment.
Dont forget your cost per mile of maintenance. ICE aint cheap to roll around forever. Emissions and tires/brakes will get ya. Idk, thought I had more substance when I started typing
I love the idea of EVs, drove one for awhile, but as a note, tires do wear out faster on EVs because they are heavier.
But yes gas is more expensive in most areas, and EVs save on brakes with regen.
nd EVs save on brakes with regen.
and oil changes, and transmission fluid, and alternator rebuilds… the complexity of ICE vehicles alone will be their downfall.
All true.
Still too expensive for your average Joe, unfortunately.
Even with all the extra costs, I can still get an older ice car cheaper. I just bought an 07 Honda Fit for $1300, plus a few hundred for some suspension work I did myself. The thing runs like a champ, and I’m averaging 42.5mpg.
I wish I could have an EV, but it’s just not cost effective yet. I plan to put another 100k on this Honda before reconsidering the market.
How much money do you reckon you spent on gas in the last 11 years?
$25 per week over 11 years works out to be $14,300.
Ya got a point, but it would need to be offset by charging costs.
Yeah, but I should also offset the $5,500 by 11 years of (higher than normal) inflation, and also get more accurate numbers for the amount of money spent on gas ($25 seems a little low, doesn’t it?).
I think it’s fair to say that a used EV has a lower TCO than a used ICE car.
Sure there’s more upfront cost and we have to consider the boots theory but if you can afford to buy a used EV, it’s safe to say that it’s cheaper in the long run.
I mean… a full charge costs me like $11 ish? Tesla stats tell me I drove 8300 miles last year And the total cost to me to charge was about $650.
If you can trust their calculator it says gas cost for a comparable car in my state was about $1350 for the same mileage, so $700 savings.
You’re absolutely right about the long run. The problem is the up-front costs. The proletariat is living off of the Epstein class’s table scraps.
I didn’t have the upfront cost of my car, really never have in my entire life - always got a car loan.
have you been paying cash for cars this whole time?
Near me there are multiple Chevy Bolts selling for around $10k.
No, EV people don’t forget, but the nature of posting publicly is that some readers are closer to the fence than others. You’re the only who knows how close you are to that fence.
