I personally find beehaw’s moderation weird, I get that you’re trying to create a safe and regulated space, but you simple can’t do that with 4 mods on the entire instance. I do think that their decision to jump to defederation is a result of these 4 people being overworked and simply not having the time to rationally evaluate the situation.
if they want to continue like this they’ll have to evaluate on whether to appoint proper mods to their communities or just decide to change their stance on “safe” content.
Honestly, I respect their decision but at the same time I wonder why they didn’t create a standalone unfederated from the get go.
If you want to keep the community small and tightly nit it’s just not compatible with the federation system. Now people got invested in some beehaw communities only to end up disconnected from them.
Still, it’s not like there is a guide for this. We are all learning how to make the federation work. I hope we can keep it civil toward instances that choose to defederate.
We are all invested in the same thing: Making Lemmy successful.
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Most of Beehaw’s blocks are “generic ActivityPub assholes”, which, before the Reddit migration, was really just the worst of the worst of Mastodon, Pleroma, Soapbox, and Miss/Calc/???Key instances, with the occasional PeerTube thrown in.
They likely just imported one of the common blocklists and moved on with their lives, which really should be “how to secure your community 101” but most Lemmy admins haven’t seem to have gotten the memo yet.
I’m patiently waiting for the day those assholes realize most of Lemmy is open ground for them to shit in, boy that’s gonna be a fun few days.
Got a suggested blocklist handy?
I can code, but I’ve never been a moderator. What kind of mod tools do you want?
EDIT: More discussion about mod tools: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/3281
Fricking flairs, they’re very important in the communities that I’m moderating. With an ability to set multiple flairs at once because on reddit you can set only one which sucks because some posts can fit criteria to get 2 or more flairs.
Here’s a relevant GH issue: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/317
I’ve seen this and all related gh issues, but I didn’t see anyone working on it yet sadly.
I am working on it! My team and I are working on this issue as we speak (I literally tabbed out of VS Code to answer this) and we plan to roll them out to our modded instance in a matter of days, it’s our top priority.
Extending support for this feature to the wider lemmy codebase is not paramount to our roadmap, but we will certainly make a pull request once we are done. If the lemmy devs will like our implementation and decide to adopt it we will definitely be very glad to help them doing so.
EDIT, 10 days after: only now I see that the links was about post flairs, not user flairs. To clarify, I am working on user flair, no idea if and who is working on post flairs.
Making draft PRs, even if they don’t work yet, might be a good way of demonstrating that you’re working on something. Or do you get too much useless feedback when you do?
I never considered doing that, actually. I always felt like PRs where only useful when you actually had something to show, otherwise you are just spamming a project with useless ideas and "what if"s.
But this is also my first time contributing to an open source project. Learning experience.
It unfortunately depends much upon the community/person administrating the repository. If I’m worried about that, I tend to just make a post in /Discussion linking to my private fork.
okay, let’s talk turkey. let’s define some requirements for the mod tools, and then we can start talking about how to satisfy those requirements.
Beehaw admins: there are only four of us moderating everything
Community: so ask people to be
adminsmodsBeehaw admins: i can’t understand a goddamn word you’re saying
Edit: meant to say mods not admins
“Only 4 of us moderating”
“Refuses to add mods meanwhile accepting 1000s of applications to join and building said community in a federated space where anyone outside their instance can participate”
Yep, definitely well planned out by those folks hahaha.
You are now banned from participating in Beehaw
Ribbits
Has this ever happened? From what I can tell asking people to fix their issues is the first step, and defederation only happens when they can’t/won’t fix them yet
See this post of mine which was prompted by a mastodon dev reviewing moderation tools on lemmy and kbin:
I had a conversation with the reviewer, and my impression was that headway could be made without too much difficulty.
If anyone’s keen, and willing to work in rust or Typescript, there’s probably work you could be doing right now to make better moderation tools.
I know typescript but not rust. Ive been hearing a lot of chatter about Matrix - do I install and join a server to get plugged into the dev community for lemmy? Or where should I be hanging out to get an idea of what needs to be done? Github?
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Who defederated now?
Nobody de-federated. People saw that there was a the_Donald community on sh.itjust.works + a lot of people from said server defending it (“just ignore it bro”). That triggered probably bad memories ala spez defending t_D because of “VaLuABlE DiSCuSsIoN”, while they brigaded and harrased countless people during their time on Reddit. Some people got a little bit carried away and demanded de-federation and a couple of trolls throw gazoline in the fire.
This is one of the personal fears I have about society’s where ‘the mob’ decides. Most people haven’t had their fate decided by a mob before and so might not know what this means or how it pans out most of the time.
I believe it is imperative that we have something in place to avoid mob actions - not a central authority per say but possibly a collective code we all believe in and abide by. We could perhaps establish what is (un)acceptable on a fediversal (universal) scale and what is (un)acceptable on a local instances (instances decide this themselves obv.)
In the future we might need Lemmy/ActivityPub to be able to define posts/accounts/communities that are accessible across the Fediverse and those that are only accessible to users of that instance.
Hence we wouldn’t have the problem where for instance: members of one instance think pictures of furries is not NSFW content but members from other instances think it is
I’ll never understand this moral handwringing about mob rule.
No one is burning witches. There’s no value to having a bunch of neo-nazi perspectives. They’re not useful, productive or worth platforming.
You don’t even recognize the danger you are complicit in creating.
Niemöller recognized it, when he said:
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Thomas Paine recognized it when he said:
He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.
The problem with participating in a mob that attacks Nazis is that the mob isn’t done when the Nazis are all dead. The mob is still around, still looking for enemies to oppress.
The idea that it is socially acceptable to oppress an undesirable group is the exact principle that allowed the German people to promote the mob rule of the Nazi party. By the time they realized what they had created, they were forced to support it, even if they were horrified by what they were doing. Anyone questioning the continued need for their mob found themselves an enemy of it, and thus targeted by it.
That’s the problem with fascism. It is an extremely attractive idea. Fascism arises when we as a society determine we have the right to suppress anything we don’t like, without bothering to consider that nobody is universally liked. When fascism runs out of enemies, it manufactures new ones out of its least liked supporters. The mob you create today is the same mob that will be lynching you tomorrow.
The solution that our grandparents and great-grandparents came up with reiterates Niemöller and Paine. They developed a philosophical principle best summarized as:
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
When Nazis are talking, the appropriate response is to talk back, not prohibit them from talking. When we ignore them, censor them, or impose silence on them, they win.
You could read Karl Popper’s The Paradox of Tolerance.
There’s no need to debate Nazism or Fascism with Nazis and Fascists. The education on it should come from historians and those otherwise educated in it.
When we censor Nazis we win. When we let them into our spaces we lose.
I’ve read it. I reject it.
The critical flaw in Popper’s paradox is the assumption that society can accurately recognize and agree on the group of people who deserve to be shunned and silenced. Anyone subscribing to Popper’s paradox can claim it supports their own position against the other. That’s why it is a paradox.
Popper’s paradox suggests that the only solution to fascism is another form of fascism. He suggests the only way to deal with an authoritarian regime is with another authoritarian regime. When both sides subscribe to Popper, they ultimately attack each other, to the death.
The Free Speech absolutist position does not have this problem. When both sides subscribe to free speech, they defend eachother, to the death.
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend you while you say it, even as I yell at the top of my lungs that you are wrong and that nobody should be listening to you.
Karl Popper presented the paradox not to justify intolerance of the intolerant, but to show how reasonable, rational people were able to justify the atrocities committed in their name. Like all paradoxes, when we find that Popper’s model is paradoxical, we must recognize that absurdity. We must not adopt it, but reject the model that created it, and find a new method that doesn’t conclude in paradox. Free speech absolutism is one such approach.
You simultaneously reject it and believe he wrote it to prove how unsustainable it is?
You’re entirely wrong. No ideas need to be shared where people don’t want to hear them. You are free to speak and I am free to not listen. It’s truly a beautiful approach.
Edit: I’d also like to add that the paradox Popper is referring to is that of tolerating intolerance. That’s the paradox.
Nobody de-federated
Beehaw defederated sh.itjust.works and I think Lemmy.world
Yeah but it was before the story with T_D happened and for different reasons
Would it be relatively straightfoward to port other forums tools here?
