The whole thing is a story and shouldn’t be taken seriously but here we are. People like to pick and choose which parts of the story are worth following. Old or new testament doesn’t matter, believe in one then you have to believe in the other.
That’s nonsense. For one, Jewish people exist, and for two you can just read it for the ideas
I’ve read lots of religious texts. Lots of mythology and creation myths too. It’s not take it or leave it… They’re ideas and stories. Ancient wisdom, universal aspects of the human experience, philosophy and manifestos for the perfect society
You can just read it, they’re not killing people for interpreting it “wrong” anymore
Yes. Every society has their own origin stories, and that’s what this is
Rome had Remus and Romulus. America has Christopher Columbus and the founding fathers
They’re a mix of actual events, myth, and the morals we aspire to as a society. Even very recently formed countries reframe their history this way
Actual history, when you study it academically, is mostly petty people making personal decisions that work out. It’s messy compromises and opportunities falling into people’s laps. Sometimes there’s ideals, but it’s mostly compromises
But that’s not what we generally teach… We always frame the story in a way to highlight the values we believe define us as a society. Even when we change the story - what we teach to children is always a reflection of the values we aspire to
Kind of, yes. A lot of it is historical accounts of varying credibility. But it’s important to always be aware that those accounts were written centuries after the events that they’re telling us about, and are heavily mythologised and extremely biased.
There’s also the attempt to influence and control the followers, and to do the bidding of the religion’s leaders. As well as practical tips like not eating old shell fish or being careful with tainted meat.
What is a god? The Bible speaks about many gods, different kinds even. Are the Creator and the god of the Israelites the same?
What are they referring to here? The will of the people, the mandate of heaven, the super organism created by the abstractions of a group of humans - he didn’t follow it as king. He was supposed to be executor of the will of the people, and he didn’t deliver the “justice” they demanded
I’m not the one saying the sky daddy is whispering in people’s ears. That’s not how it ever works, does it? It’s always people going off to meditate, and coming back with sometimes inconvenient moments of enlightenment
Oh, and let’s not forget when the god of the Israelites changes their mind… It happens kind of a lot
Of course my takes are heretical. I actually read the source material
The Roman Catholic Church was created by Constantine to blend the Roman religion with the trappings of the early church, which they massacred but couldn’t eradicate. It was spreading through the legions and threatening Roman rule, so he stole Jesus’s name. Then, for a thousand years, they killed anyone who read the book and came to inconvenient conclusions
Jesus was born in July, and he was a philosopher and a revolutionary. A based as hell guy. Had a lot of good ideas that are very relevant today
You need to understand that most of these people have never cracked the Bible open, let alone actually try to read it as a collection of 55 separate books mostly chronling One tribe and of their stories covering poetry, life lessons, spirituality, morality, etc over roughly a 3,000 ish year time span bound in one binding.
Or to put this in perspective. Imagine somebody made a supercut of all Star wars media ever produced all of the clone wars episodes, the prequels all of the new Disney shit and they made it into one massive supercut. That’s what the Bible is.
I understand that… But imagine you have all these star wars fans who love dressing up like storm troopers and doing crackdowns. They’re even in government, screaming “for the empire!” as they bomb random people in the middle east
And obviously, a lot of people are going to think Star wars is evil
But reading the Bible without commentary is like a vaccine for the mind virus. Especially the gospels, they’re short and based as hell
The mental gymnastics required to replace mutual aid with magic is truly extraordinary. That’s why they explain the Bible to kids, sentence by sentence, to make sure they don’t accidentally understand it
That’s why they explain the Bible to kids, sentence by sentence, to make sure they don’t accidentally understand it
That really is the rotten heart of the probelm. Doesn’t matter which flavor of fundamentalist. Christian/Jewish/Islamic fundies all pour that mind poison into children.
There’s not a single line. You’ve said that I disagree with across either of your comments. But it’s not even just the Stormtroopers. It’s the people that are going on and on and on about how Star wars is the story of jar jar Binks and not the story of the skywalkers… And the Binks people are the majority of the Star wars fans at this point
Psalm 137:9 says it’s a value.
Some translationa say you will just be happy if you bash babies against rocks. But most say you will be blessed for doing it. That makes it a value.
It’s literally a curse against their enemies. Like it’s that simple
Psalms are prayers to God, it’s all just a book of poetry. They’re not laws, they’re not divine commands, they’re literally just feelings in flowery words
The claim that the Psalms are just poetry is going to be heartbreaking to anyone that cites them as prophecies about Jesus. There are, what, 25 different ones that people use that way? It’s the number one source of old testament retroactive bias confirmation that JC is the Messiah. Take away their predictive qualities by making them just prayers said by people and you destroy the best resources for people to justify their core beliefs.
In your attempt to back up one claim you have destroyed 25 others and the bulk of the reason for the new testament. That was not a good move.
The claim that the Psalms are just poetry is going to be heartbreaking to anyone that cites them as prophecies about Jesus
That’s completely fine. The early Christians went to great lengths to try to say “this bit here was prophecy, and here’s how our guy fulfilled it”. But nobody was viewing those passages as prophecies before then. It was all marketing for a weird little offshoot of Judaism on the fringes of the Roman empire which happened to take off centuries later.
That’s what I said. It was hindsight bias turning things into prophecy and not “it’s all happening like the prophecies foretold.”. They were so desperate for prophecies they even made up ones that never existed, I’m looking at you Matthew 2:23.
But the commenter said that they had no value other than poetry. They are just the prayers of men. And in doing so they ignore the completely made up but very real world necessity of the Psalms to justify people’s belief. For without the believers’ ability to use them as prophecies, even if they weren’t intended as that, the majority of the case for JC as the Messiah vanishes.
I genuinely see no conflict here, and I think anyone who does has gotten caught up in a narrative. I don’t really care if their picture falls apart, if it requires magic than show me how it works…But I think the book explains it already, indirectly
What is prophecy?
The US empire will collapse, and its not going to be spectacular, it will happen with agonizing slowness.
In a moment of enlightenment, I knew it was true. I’m having a lot of trouble accepting it, even years later - I still wait for people to take to the streets and take back our democracy, or for a solar flare to give us a reset. I’d rather be there to rebuild or have AI or aliens save us… But that’s not going to happen, is it?
Deep down I understand it’s cope, intellectually I see how it fits together. I know how this plays out in general terms, but I haven’t seen the future. I’ve just seen the full picture for a moment
Is that a prophecy? Because what I felt at that understanding was despair and resignation. I could write a poem about it, does that make it a prophecy?
You lost the thread and went into beep boop beep territory there.
In short prophecy is anything that people look back on and say “wow, they sure got that right” even if they didn’t get it right and it wasn’t until after the fact that anyone even saw something as having predictive pretenses.
I tend to think there’s more to it… Otherwise it’s just a prediction. And I don’t know wtf beep boop beep territory is supposed to mean
I don’t think prophecy is that stupid though. It’s genuine wisdom, it is a thing that can be done, when you empty your mind of desire and for a moment you can understand how the systems you know play out. It’s floating the stone for society if you will, letting go of yourself long enough to use your understanding objectively
And that’s my whole fucking point. The poetry is irrelevant. David or whoever could’ve looked at Jewish history, which is all about wise men rallying the people, and determining “this too shall end” and predicting it would come in the form of another wise man
They’re really not values… It’s history. The old testament is a story of people becoming better over generations, and the ebb and flow of it
The whole thing is a story and shouldn’t be taken seriously but here we are. People like to pick and choose which parts of the story are worth following. Old or new testament doesn’t matter, believe in one then you have to believe in the other.
Have you ever met a jewish person? jfc.
That’s nonsense. For one, Jewish people exist, and for two you can just read it for the ideas
I’ve read lots of religious texts. Lots of mythology and creation myths too. It’s not take it or leave it… They’re ideas and stories. Ancient wisdom, universal aspects of the human experience, philosophy and manifestos for the perfect society
You can just read it, they’re not killing people for interpreting it “wrong” anymore
…is it really though
Yes. Every society has their own origin stories, and that’s what this is
Rome had Remus and Romulus. America has Christopher Columbus and the founding fathers
They’re a mix of actual events, myth, and the morals we aspire to as a society. Even very recently formed countries reframe their history this way
Actual history, when you study it academically, is mostly petty people making personal decisions that work out. It’s messy compromises and opportunities falling into people’s laps. Sometimes there’s ideals, but it’s mostly compromises
But that’s not what we generally teach… We always frame the story in a way to highlight the values we believe define us as a society. Even when we change the story - what we teach to children is always a reflection of the values we aspire to
Kind of, yes. A lot of it is historical accounts of varying credibility. But it’s important to always be aware that those accounts were written centuries after the events that they’re telling us about, and are heavily mythologised and extremely biased.
There’s also the attempt to influence and control the followers, and to do the bidding of the religion’s leaders. As well as practical tips like not eating old shell fish or being careful with tainted meat.
1 Samuel 15
The Abrahamic god is pro-genocide, and routinely commands the Israelites to commit genocide.
What is a god? The Bible speaks about many gods, different kinds even. Are the Creator and the god of the Israelites the same?
What are they referring to here? The will of the people, the mandate of heaven, the super organism created by the abstractions of a group of humans - he didn’t follow it as king. He was supposed to be executor of the will of the people, and he didn’t deliver the “justice” they demanded
I’m not the one saying the sky daddy is whispering in people’s ears. That’s not how it ever works, does it? It’s always people going off to meditate, and coming back with sometimes inconvenient moments of enlightenment
Oh, and let’s not forget when the god of the Israelites changes their mind… It happens kind of a lot
What you’re saying is heretical, just fyi… But if it allows you to feel better about yourself then go for it.
Of course my takes are heretical. I actually read the source material
The Roman Catholic Church was created by Constantine to blend the Roman religion with the trappings of the early church, which they massacred but couldn’t eradicate. It was spreading through the legions and threatening Roman rule, so he stole Jesus’s name. Then, for a thousand years, they killed anyone who read the book and came to inconvenient conclusions
Jesus was born in July, and he was a philosopher and a revolutionary. A based as hell guy. Had a lot of good ideas that are very relevant today
You need to understand that most of these people have never cracked the Bible open, let alone actually try to read it as a collection of 55 separate books mostly chronling One tribe and of their stories covering poetry, life lessons, spirituality, morality, etc over roughly a 3,000 ish year time span bound in one binding.
Or to put this in perspective. Imagine somebody made a supercut of all Star wars media ever produced all of the clone wars episodes, the prequels all of the new Disney shit and they made it into one massive supercut. That’s what the Bible is.
I understand that… But imagine you have all these star wars fans who love dressing up like storm troopers and doing crackdowns. They’re even in government, screaming “for the empire!” as they bomb random people in the middle east
And obviously, a lot of people are going to think Star wars is evil
But reading the Bible without commentary is like a vaccine for the mind virus. Especially the gospels, they’re short and based as hell
The mental gymnastics required to replace mutual aid with magic is truly extraordinary. That’s why they explain the Bible to kids, sentence by sentence, to make sure they don’t accidentally understand it
That really is the rotten heart of the probelm. Doesn’t matter which flavor of fundamentalist. Christian/Jewish/Islamic fundies all pour that mind poison into children.
There’s not a single line. You’ve said that I disagree with across either of your comments. But it’s not even just the Stormtroopers. It’s the people that are going on and on and on about how Star wars is the story of jar jar Binks and not the story of the skywalkers… And the Binks people are the majority of the Star wars fans at this point
I agree, and that’s kind of my objective
We need to encourage people to watch the source material so they know to mock the larpers for never having done the same
Side note, Darth Jar-Jar theories are dope
Psalm 137:9 says it’s a value. Some translationa say you will just be happy if you bash babies against rocks. But most say you will be blessed for doing it. That makes it a value.
It’s literally a curse against their enemies. Like it’s that simple
Psalms are prayers to God, it’s all just a book of poetry. They’re not laws, they’re not divine commands, they’re literally just feelings in flowery words
The slavery stuff isn’t in Psalms. What apologetics have you memorized for those?
That it’s history and you’re not supposed to go back. You’re supposed to learn from it
I’m not telling anyone to obey the Bible, I’m just encouraging people to actually read it
The claim that the Psalms are just poetry is going to be heartbreaking to anyone that cites them as prophecies about Jesus. There are, what, 25 different ones that people use that way? It’s the number one source of old testament retroactive bias confirmation that JC is the Messiah. Take away their predictive qualities by making them just prayers said by people and you destroy the best resources for people to justify their core beliefs.
In your attempt to back up one claim you have destroyed 25 others and the bulk of the reason for the new testament. That was not a good move.
That’s completely fine. The early Christians went to great lengths to try to say “this bit here was prophecy, and here’s how our guy fulfilled it”. But nobody was viewing those passages as prophecies before then. It was all marketing for a weird little offshoot of Judaism on the fringes of the Roman empire which happened to take off centuries later.
That’s what I said. It was hindsight bias turning things into prophecy and not “it’s all happening like the prophecies foretold.”. They were so desperate for prophecies they even made up ones that never existed, I’m looking at you Matthew 2:23.
But the commenter said that they had no value other than poetry. They are just the prayers of men. And in doing so they ignore the completely made up but very real world necessity of the Psalms to justify people’s belief. For without the believers’ ability to use them as prophecies, even if they weren’t intended as that, the majority of the case for JC as the Messiah vanishes.
I genuinely see no conflict here, and I think anyone who does has gotten caught up in a narrative. I don’t really care if their picture falls apart, if it requires magic than show me how it works…But I think the book explains it already, indirectly
What is prophecy?
The US empire will collapse, and its not going to be spectacular, it will happen with agonizing slowness.
In a moment of enlightenment, I knew it was true. I’m having a lot of trouble accepting it, even years later - I still wait for people to take to the streets and take back our democracy, or for a solar flare to give us a reset. I’d rather be there to rebuild or have AI or aliens save us… But that’s not going to happen, is it?
Deep down I understand it’s cope, intellectually I see how it fits together. I know how this plays out in general terms, but I haven’t seen the future. I’ve just seen the full picture for a moment
Is that a prophecy? Because what I felt at that understanding was despair and resignation. I could write a poem about it, does that make it a prophecy?
Yeah we can tell.
You lost the thread and went into beep boop beep territory there.
In short prophecy is anything that people look back on and say “wow, they sure got that right” even if they didn’t get it right and it wasn’t until after the fact that anyone even saw something as having predictive pretenses.
I tend to think there’s more to it… Otherwise it’s just a prediction. And I don’t know wtf beep boop beep territory is supposed to mean
I don’t think prophecy is that stupid though. It’s genuine wisdom, it is a thing that can be done, when you empty your mind of desire and for a moment you can understand how the systems you know play out. It’s floating the stone for society if you will, letting go of yourself long enough to use your understanding objectively
And that’s my whole fucking point. The poetry is irrelevant. David or whoever could’ve looked at Jewish history, which is all about wise men rallying the people, and determining “this too shall end” and predicting it would come in the form of another wise man
Actually a very accurate description of any religious text
They’re also philosophy, cultural identity, sometimes even manifestos for a better society
But Psalms is literally just poetry. Like, even in context… It’s just a poetry collection