Democratic Politicians: “We’re going to ignore you.”
Minority voters: “… that’s bad.”
Republican Politicians: “We’re going to pay attention to you! And blame you for everything wrong with the world!”
Minority voters: “That’s worse.”
Gotta love the state of affairs the US is in.
I don’t think these issues are being ignored but a two seat majority in the Senate, comprised of red state democrats, does limit the ability to do anything here. If you look at the state level there is a lot happening to address a variety of issues by blue states. Red states are moving backward
Ignored might be a strong word, but, especially on the national stage, there hasn’t been the impetus to make strong strides on minority rights for a while. Part of that is the fault of a certain proportion of Democratic voters, and part of that is the fault of Democratic politicians (and all of the blame, of course, lays twice as heavy on the GOP), but it is definitely a continuing problem.
Here in Utah, it’s: Legislators: We’ve rescinded all rights to register as a democrat and enacted gerrymandering across the board to ensure we never lose our power. Also, we’re putting our state up for sale to the highest bidding oil and gas companies, who needs public lands."
You’ve got situations where Democrats help elect Muslims into positions of power, only to have those same Muslims turn around and enact things like LGBTQ+ flag bans. I’m not really sure that there’s much intersection between the Democrat’s platform and Muslim ideology outside of Democrats just trying to protect civil rights in general and at least trying to help immigrants/minorities. That Democrats are sometimes ineffective at getting alot done sucks, but change takes time and Democrat constituencies aren’t as reliable a voting bloc as Republicans. You keep working towards change you want, or else the other side gets the change they want.
Or you can leave it up to Republicans, who hate your guts and their end goal is likely kicking you out of the country altogether and/or back to the “glory days” of 1950s apartheid America (if not further measures). It’s a shitty choice, but that’s what we’re down to in the US.
Sorry, who are the Democratic Muslim elected officials enacting lgbtq+ flag bans?
Hamtramck, Michigan voted in a Muslim majority city council, who promptly banned Pride flags… for reasons:
Yeah that article is a little more complicated than “Democrats get Muslim elected.“
Are any of the elected officials in question even Democrats? The article doesn’t say.
Biden won with like 85% of the vote in Hamtranck.
A little trick to reading most news articles: If the person or people its about are Democrats, the article will tell you.
It’s happening the most in Michigan since a large arab diaspora community has settled in there from the Ford days
Prior to 9/11 arab muslims were a lock in republican voting bloc because christian nationalism hadn’t yet locked onto them as a target for persecution, and they often share goals for social policy.
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That Democrats are sometimes ineffective at getting alot done sucks
Or you can leave it up to Republicans, who hate your guts and their end goal is likely kicking you out of the country altogether and/or back to the “glory days” of 1950s
As usual, Simpsons did it first
Yep people like using race and religion as excuses to protect their hate towards queer people. We’ve known this for a while but people seem surprised when people other than white Christians do this.
That Democrats are sometimes ineffective at getting alot done sucks, but change takes time and Democrat constituencies aren’t as reliable a voting bloc as Republicans. You keep working towards change you want, or else the other side gets the change they want.
south_park_cable_guy.gif
That’s false and offensive stereotyping. Polling shows over 50% of American Muslims believe LGBT Americans deserve equal rights and treatment. Only 15% of Pentecostal Christians in the US agree. Meanwhile, Muslim politicians like Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib are very supportive of LGBT issues to the point where they lost the votes of some Muslim conservatives.
Stop trying to make stuff up.
But the specific thing that Paddirn is referencing DID happen?
So? Judge millions of people by the actions of a politician?
There’s a Christian politician on west coast who proposed a bill giving death penalty for anyone who curses their parents, because the Old Testament said it. Should we judge all Christians by that guy? Absolutely not. Stop trying to stereotype.
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Paddirn is specifically stating that American Muslims are all like that city council and that you can’t trust them on that basis. That’s idiotic, and still false based on public opinion polling. My point stands that he or she is trying to make a false narrative to stir up bigotry.
All Abrahamic religions are very conservative. Hardcore Muslims share more values with hardcore Christians than with progressive liberals.
Problem is the xenophobia.
That’s another value they share.
Not true.
In the US, Jews and Muslims vote Democrat. Over 50% of American Muslims believe LGBT Americans deserve equal rights as everyone else; meanwhile only 15% of Pentecostal Christians agree.
Why would you compare Muslims to Pentacostal Christians specifically?
Muslim Americans used to vote Republican and Bush won them in the 2000 presidential elections.
Until 9/11 happened of course.
But it’s interesting what you say about 50% of Muslim Americans supporting lgbt. My guess is that those who went to America are vetted, more educated and therefore more open-minded, unlike in Europe which received massive influx of Muslim refugees of all backgrounds.
I don’t mean to sound classist and elitist but educated immigrants are just more likely to adapt and integrate. This is not very different to how the Italians and Irish in America were perceived in the past due to their massive immigration population.
Hardcore meaning fundamentalist types. Not sane people.
I don’t think the current shitstorm has anything to do with hardcoreness.
WHAT THE FUCK IS UP, DENNY’s?!?
Is that a joke?
Sure, but most Muslims in America are not hardcore. The average Muslim American is significantly more liberal than the average white person.
Idk about that one champ
Thats so hyperbolic it would be funny if I didn’t think you were serious
Who are they going to vote for in what is effectively a two-party system, the Republicans with a sizeable group of Christo-fascists?
They’ll get even worse than ignored, they’ll be targeted.
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3rd party has always been a guise to pull votes from Democratic candidates.
Ross Perot would like a word.
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Short of God himself striking down Trump with a lightning bolt, he will be the nominee.
Works both ways. Trump, if he’s not the nominee, will be splitting the other side too.
It does not work like this.
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So when you say “3rd party 2024” you’re suggesting voting for Donnie?
Now I don’t understand your take.
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Giant asteroid 2024
Ever wonder why Steve Bannon is working so hard to recruit 3rd party candidates?
Can’t happen until you change the legislatures to 5 member proportional districts and the single-seat offices to something like approval voting (or any other voting system where it’s safe to give your favorite maximum support).
Tell me you don’t understand math & game theory without telling me you don’t understand math & game theory.
Tell me you don’t understand the trolley problem without telling me you don’t understand game theory.
And that’s how you effectively voted for whichever of the 2 parties you hate least.
Former NYC Mayor Ed Koch had a good line. "If you agree with me 51% of the time, you should vote for me. If you agree with me 100% of the time, talk to a doctor.’
What should Democrats be doing for black voters that they aren’t?
There is a national black caucus that pretty well represents current black American issues before each election.
reparations for slavery, strengthening the right to vote and making it easier to access polls, outlawing the death penalty, abolishing prisons, removing the clause in the 13th amendment that allows for legal slavery, abolishing the police or at the very least force them to have oversight, banning AI for use in law enforcement, etc.
Reparations seems like a nonstarter but the rest of these are happening, to various degrees, at the state level in blue states
I think reparations are possible, we have to organize and do more than just voting to make it happen though.
I imagine the hardest part would be determining who was harmed by slavery given that not everyone has records of it. I think it would be nice to do to put that shameful chapter of history behind us. Whatever dollar amount we come up with probably wouldn’t be sufficient for the generational wealth destroyed, but it would be an attempt at doing better and very symbolic.
I don’t think reparations would work as direct cash payments, I think they would work best as investments into black communities. Your reasoning is exactly why I support reparations though. We cannot fix the harm, but we can try to make it right.
So any public works in a black community counts as reparations to you, but you also think none of that is happening?
Where the hell did you get that idea? Reparations would be separate from regular public works.
Porque no las dos? Most folks who’ve looked into it have concluded that it will take direct cash payment as well as community investment and multiple other simultaneous efforts to fully catch the black community up to their white counterparts in terms of opportunities and generational wealth they’ve been denied access to, and to work against the culture of racism that made all that denial possible in the first place.
I think when most Americans think of reparations, they think of direct payments and no other remedies, so they get upset about it for all manners of reasons. When discussing reparations, it’s far easier to get people on board when you don’t talk about direct payments. Payments are part of the solution, but they won’t solve the problem. If we had to pick a single option, focusing on communities would have the strongest individual impact.
An example of what you discuss shows in the reparations to the Seminole tribe. Many freed slaves or escaped slaves never signed documentation (like a census for the tribe) as they were more worried about getting found/cheated etc. Last I knew there were court cases still open or closed in the past couple decades pertaining to such.
What would the lost wages in their entirety amount to?
Now that would be really hard to figure out, you’d have to determine what sort of jobs were done as slaves and how many hours. I don’t think slavers kept those sorts of records in the antebellum South.
Even granting the value of 40 acres and a mule plus 200 years of interest to descendants of slaves would be a challenge.
I don’t think slavers kept those sorts of records in the antebellum South.
I think they may have, as slavery was an industry so were plantations. The planters as well as the slavers probably kept meticolous books and records. I assume such as they probably lacked any guilty conscience for their crimes.
I will look it up once I am back home again and have access to the library.
Some speculate nothing at this point since generational wealth doesn’t tend to stick around for long,
The more sensible solution is instead paying reparations for red lining since the fiscal affects of that are directly observable today without argument over generational entropy, and because it’s arguably still ongoing.
You’d need to mitigate the reparations paid by also calculating the generational loss of wealth over the same period by “unaffected” citizens.
What reparations should be paid for is for red lining, as that is a problem that is arguably still ongoing and which has impacts on today’s generational wealth recently enough to not have been reduced by the average loss of wealth over generational entropy, not to mention the parallel to the original promise of reparations “40 acres and a mule”, not sure how many urban black families would be looking forward to having basically a horse to now take care of but the value of land they were denied access to is deffo something that american black families would be greatly advanced by.
If you really want to fuel the GOP, pass some reparations that cross generational lines. They will immediately point out how some recipients are squandering the money. Resentment will build. It will ignite latent racism. And then the Indigenous Peoples will want the same deal, and the Chinese, and then everyone who had a female ancestor treated as an inferior human will want their cut! You make one minority segment happy while sowing discontent among the rest. Reparations that are not directly related to the wrongs done to an individual are a slippery slope. There are better ways to deal with the inequities of the past.
I have an ancestors who was owed money from the king of England for a loan made in the 1700s. The bank handling the account said that the money had to be evenly divided among the descends. What started out as a literal kings ransom got down to under $10 when divided evenly.
The original slavey reparations was an acre of land and a mule. Divided equally, even assuming multiple slave ancestors, would be a few square feet and just enough mule hair to make brush. Reparations done on the scale of harm done equally divided would be insulting. Making things better for everyone is a much easier sell.
Thanks for the thorough list, that all seems like good stuff to me except I’d prefer reforming prisons and making them like the Nordic model instead of abolishing them.
prison abolition is uncomfortable at first, so I understand. Nordic prisons would be a massive improvement, but to me it’s just polishing a turd
So what are we going to do with actual terrible people? Murders, rapists, etc?
find and address the problems that cause people to behave that way, to prevent it from happening in the first place.
We absolutely can greatly reduce crime by doing that and should – but that’s not going to completely eliminate those crimes.
People are going to slip through the cracks, and sociopaths are still going to exist.
Yeah that’s nice and feel good but you can’t deny that there are people who behave badly because they’re just rotten people.
Domestic abusers are a key example, people go through the same supposed stressors that DV perps go through without belt whipping their kid for not being man enough at the age of 5.
Have an upvote for understanding systemic issues.
A big part of what makes our prisons so terrible and why we throw so many people into them has to do with the 13th amendment, as you acknowledged. If they cease to be profitable, if prisoners cannot be used as slave labor, a lot of what makes them terrible will evaporate. If every prisoner costs the state money, expect them to create fewer of them.
Would the constitution be possibly changed to prevent slavery of prisoners? Would that conclude the abolition movement?
Reparations: what’s your suggested plan for this?
I’m not a legislator. In general, I think they would look like substantial investments into black communities, rather than direct cash payments.
That sounds pretty reasonable.
Look over black families that trace back to at least one person who would have been eligible for New Deal and Post War housing benefits but did not receive them due to the colour of their skin or for living in a redlined neighborhood or other factors of the like, calculate an average benefit to each generation following from Americans who did get those benefits, and pay out accordingly to modern black and mixed race households.
It is debatable if there’s even money that could be paid back for slavery since those wages arguably may have already exhausted their extragenerational benefit, but redlining and housing benefits denial is a crime we can observe clearly in the present day, and who’s generational benefits are well argued to be still in hand for the families that did get them.
Tax break
Tax break for… people who can prove their family history traces back to a slave?
That’s where it will be caught up in the court system. You can’t just say “I’m black gimme money!” They’re going to want documentation that probably doesn’t exist or was destroyed
Also The ‘Chinese Railroad Worker’ descendants may raise a hand.
Yes? Also what fucking evidence are you expecting nobody kept their great great grandparents papers of sale. I know for a fact my ancestors were slaves, can’t prove shit though
Don’t cuss at me. That is exactly my point: that documentation is gone or never existed in the first place. It’s not like record keeping for slaves was very good.
No one is handing out free money without documentation. So that route won’t work.
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It’s a tax break not free money. There are plenty of ways off the top of my head immigration records would record immigrated from Africa but not those that came in the slave trade. Plus I can show my family has been here for generations on top of that likely certain markers in DNA would show being African American vs being from Africa.
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Muslim Americans are going to be so shocked when Trump strips their citizenship & expels them from the country of their birth.
It can happen here.
You guys seriously need to start talking about getting rid of your two party system
The #GOP is outlawing other methods of voting, so good fucking luck with that if you’re going to support Trump by staying at home.
Can someone please identify a few “Muslim issues” that are ignored by Democrats? I can’t seem to think of any political issues that could be considered “Muslim”
Not American
In Canada Muslims vote Conservative
Recently a Liberal visited a Mosque and covered her hair/dressed up for it
They booed her and told her that Muslims will never vote for a pro-gay candidate
We had a nationwide march against gays/trans called the one million march for children, Christian and Muslim leaders joined together to organize it
Yeah that one million march shit is fucked
Source? I can’t find anything confirming what you’ve described.
https://www.1millionmarchforchildren.ca/about-the-organizers
“I believe (Crombie) should be only targeting LGBTQ votes. I can remember, though, the public statement Bonnie Crombie made about Haya day when we gathered to celebrate our pride about modesty and she sided with the LGBTQ community as if they are the only community worthy of celebrating pride, insulting the Muslim community who voted her to be a mayor of Mississauga.”
Thanks for your perspective!
Yes.
Removing the Muslim ban (Biden delivered on this)
Civil Liberties for Muslim Americans (he won’t meet with Muslim rights groups like CAIR)
Prosecuting hate crimes against Muslims and mosques. (Biden only announced this month that he will get some experts together and make a new policy TBD. Not sure why he waited 3 years to announce he will start to deliver on a campaign promise…)
Evenhanded Israel-Palestine policy (he badly failed at this)
Support democracy in Middle East and Muslim majority countries (he’s failed at this)
Not sure why he waited 3 years to announce he will start to deliver on a campaign promise…
Common tactic. Delay working on vote-winning issues until the end of the first term for that sweet, oh so sweet, double dip.
ya, just remember if Biden doesn’t get in, the guy that unironically wants to send Muslims to camps will get in
no way to stop this says only country… oh no wait thats shootings.
what do you call a democratic system where you only have one choice?
see, you happen to be confusing having one not horrible choice with having no choice.
that is known as an ultimatum, which is indeed no choice at all
It’s American “democracy” in action
Clearly we need a different system, because it’s clear that Democrats will never make the types of change we need, and we sure as hell can’t vote Republican
It’s a farce
why are you relying on electoralism to enact change? no, you go out and vote every election so the least bad, and easier to work with government gets into power, not so you can sit back as they do everything
even in a multi party system, why would there be multiple parties that have similar demands?
you also again forget that you have a choice of following through with an ultimatum
I appreciate this!
Well many of them do seem to be pretty upset at the US giving military aid to Israel.
I completely overlooked that tbh, not my proudest moment.
I love that line from Buster Scruggs. “First time?” at the gallows? Welcome to American politics. You’ll be hanged over and over again trying to get what you want and need in terms of representation.
Their choice remains: getting beaten up, deported or killed or just getting their issues ignored
I know the title is a joke but yes, minority groups (excluding the LGBT+ community) are voting red in larger numbers than ever.
I can’t find information on minorities voting conservative.
Do you have any articles I can look up or keywords to search for?
The number should be near zero for minority groups buuuuut yeah.
https://www.pewresearch.org/race-ethnicity/2022/09/29/latinos-and-the-2022-midterm-elections/
Latinos are typically either VERY conservative or VERY liberal. Cubans especially if they hate Castro.
It also doesn’t help that there were efforts by the right to spread misinformation to right leaning Hispanic voters linking democrats to the authoritarian leaders they fled. It was an effective strategy.
Also with how immigration from other countries is controlled to typically target highly specialized workers who will see themselves as part of the upper class while over here.
The western showdown with caste discrimination is a direct result of this, migrants from south asia tend to imbalance towards higher caste individuals who have a chip on their shoulder from India having passed caste affirmative action and who then go on to pick fights about how its their religious right to engage in it in the west.
The Ramaswamy gang if you will.
These people want to imagine themselves as part of the old boys club that the republicans try to sell themselves as whenever a word can be gotten in over their rabid white christian nationalist voting base.
Oh, do you just mean that any minority vote higher than zero for Trump is surprising?
That survey had a lot of information, is there any historical comparison like the change in voting habits over time that you mentioned?
Source?
Trump hits new poll highs with Black, Hispanic voters. What to make of it?
Quotes
Across five high-quality polls that have broken out non-White voters in the past month, Trump is averaging 20 percent of Black voters and 42 percent of Hispanic voters.
Both numbers — and especially that for Black voters — could set modern-day records for a Republican in a presidential election.
No Republican presidential candidate in the past 50 years has approached receiving 20 percent of the Black vote. Since Republicans took 18 percent in 1972 and 16 percent in 1976, according to exit polls, they haven’t taken more than 12 percent of Black
See also
Black support for GOP ticked up in this year’s midterms
Republican candidates were backed by 14% of Black voters, compared with 8% in the last midterm elections four years ago, according to AP VoteCast, an extensive national survey of the electorate.
tanka u
Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos.
Same in the UK with Labour ayylmao
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Black folks aren’t marching in anti gay parades (see comment below).
So I feel like it’s kinda unfair
