As far as the United States is concerned, today’s Left is not only small, it’s also quite confused. Sure, there are debates regarding the conflict being
Social democracies actually do have capitalism. Sweden for instance has many corporations that exist and are highly successful, while the rest of the economic system has some socialist attributes.
America is a mixed economy. We have social security, Medicare, etc. it’s already a social democracy. So you just want more of it. The problem is capitalism always corrupts it because the for profit model makes greed the priority. That’s why some want to get rid of that impetus. They want a planned economy that doesn’t operate on scarcity.
Keep capitalism. Allow people to become rich. Use the promise of money to fuel innovation and labor.
… but, after the wealth is generated, we use an extremely aggressive, progressive tax system to functionally call wealth at some level that fuels ambition, but recognized that the majority of that vast wealth was generated by the workers.
For example, Bill Gates at one point was with 80 BILLION dollars. Can anyone say with a straight face that back when he was working out of a garage, he would have been any less motivated if he knew he could get (only?!) 50 million dollars?
Of course not. That’s a fortune… That’s all your material needs met for your whole life, and a great inheritance to leave for your family. So why not ramp up all taxes, exponentially, forn income and wealth beyond $50m?
The innovations would be the same, the companies would be the same, but either by taxes or by salaries or stock options, the WORKERS would have shared in that 80 BILLION that Gates hoarded.
In 2018, U.S. households held over $113 trillion in assets. For context, that is over five times as much as all the goods and services produced in the U.S. economy in a single year. If that amount were divided evenly across the U.S. population of 329 million, it would result in over $343,000 for each person. For a family of three, that’s over a million dollars in assets.
Does wealth really fuel ambition? Id feel like eventually it would just become a growing number in an account. I think a lot of people on top want power but I believe the innovators are fueled by creativity and curiosity. Maybe some jobs are useless. Do we need 10000 fast food choices? Do we need 10000 different stupid apps? Do we need to constantly grow like a virus, destroying the planet and anything that stops our growth? Enslaving people in meaningless jobs to keep the machine growing.
The ability to get acquire wealth ABSOLUTELY fuels ambition. The concept that working harder and smarter will yield financial rewards? It’s driven more innovation than anything else in history.
Creativity, discovery, and problem solving are fun… but taking an new idea and turning into something useful… That’s MOSTLY drudgery, and very expensive in both time and money. The financial rewards at the end of the journey are what fuel people and institutions.
Sure not starving to death and living a comfortable life, but I’d say there’s a limit to most. What is it for you? The number in the account, all the useless materialism, or the power of being in charge of everything and everyone you own? I don’t think any of the reasons is a good way to live, and I doubt most even want to live that way. We don’t need to be mindless hoarders.
I have know and worked with people who have made a lot of money. Not billions, but millions. The ones who actually do the innovating don’t do it for the money. And most of the ones not innovating actually are doing it because they are competitive. They want to be the best. Money is part of that, but only in the relative to others sense.
Now here’s the rub. The innovators can’t innovate without someone paying the bill. And the competitors aren’t just competing with people in their own country.
So any solution needs to deal with those complexities.
I would build software even if I was not being paid for doing the work. I am lucky to trade my time for money in something I would be doing anyway. I have less say over my projects than I would like, but at least I get to make projects that make me happy.
I seem to be bad at making money when owners make my yearly salary per hour.
You do realize Democratic Socialism would eliminate capitalism? Or do you mean market socialism? Or Social Democracy?
Social democracies actually do have capitalism. Sweden for instance has many corporations that exist and are highly successful, while the rest of the economic system has some socialist attributes.
Is that what you’re advocating for?
Sure why not, it’s got to be better than what I’m living under right now.
America is a mixed economy. We have social security, Medicare, etc. it’s already a social democracy. So you just want more of it. The problem is capitalism always corrupts it because the for profit model makes greed the priority. That’s why some want to get rid of that impetus. They want a planned economy that doesn’t operate on scarcity.
That’s absolutely what I’m advocating for.
Keep capitalism. Allow people to become rich. Use the promise of money to fuel innovation and labor.
… but, after the wealth is generated, we use an extremely aggressive, progressive tax system to functionally call wealth at some level that fuels ambition, but recognized that the majority of that vast wealth was generated by the workers.
For example, Bill Gates at one point was with 80 BILLION dollars. Can anyone say with a straight face that back when he was working out of a garage, he would have been any less motivated if he knew he could get (only?!) 50 million dollars?
Of course not. That’s a fortune… That’s all your material needs met for your whole life, and a great inheritance to leave for your family. So why not ramp up all taxes, exponentially, forn income and wealth beyond $50m?
The innovations would be the same, the companies would be the same, but either by taxes or by salaries or stock options, the WORKERS would have shared in that 80 BILLION that Gates hoarded.
So, like the New Deal with progressive tax rates to 90%?
Yes. Higher, even as you get close to 50m.
Current wealth distribution in the US is INSANELY skewed… Corrections will have to be extremely drastic.
You don’t want to do this?
Does wealth really fuel ambition? Id feel like eventually it would just become a growing number in an account. I think a lot of people on top want power but I believe the innovators are fueled by creativity and curiosity. Maybe some jobs are useless. Do we need 10000 fast food choices? Do we need 10000 different stupid apps? Do we need to constantly grow like a virus, destroying the planet and anything that stops our growth? Enslaving people in meaningless jobs to keep the machine growing.
The ability to get acquire wealth ABSOLUTELY fuels ambition. The concept that working harder and smarter will yield financial rewards? It’s driven more innovation than anything else in history.
Creativity, discovery, and problem solving are fun… but taking an new idea and turning into something useful… That’s MOSTLY drudgery, and very expensive in both time and money. The financial rewards at the end of the journey are what fuel people and institutions.
Sure not starving to death and living a comfortable life, but I’d say there’s a limit to most. What is it for you? The number in the account, all the useless materialism, or the power of being in charge of everything and everyone you own? I don’t think any of the reasons is a good way to live, and I doubt most even want to live that way. We don’t need to be mindless hoarders.
I have know and worked with people who have made a lot of money. Not billions, but millions. The ones who actually do the innovating don’t do it for the money. And most of the ones not innovating actually are doing it because they are competitive. They want to be the best. Money is part of that, but only in the relative to others sense.
Now here’s the rub. The innovators can’t innovate without someone paying the bill. And the competitors aren’t just competing with people in their own country.
So any solution needs to deal with those complexities.
Government grants… Democratic influence over where research is directed.
Publicly owned venture capital firms.
Non-profit grants
We have government grants. But it is impossible to find a body to decide who gets them that isn’t biased and/or corrupt.
We also have publicly owned venture capital firms
Not sure what the last one is exactly… but pretty sure we have that too.
I would build software even if I was not being paid for doing the work. I am lucky to trade my time for money in something I would be doing anyway. I have less say over my projects than I would like, but at least I get to make projects that make me happy.
I seem to be bad at making money when owners make my yearly salary per hour.