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- cross-posted to:
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Foundation says it won’t compromise policy of inclusivity even if that cash would’ve really helped
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How do donations dome with strings? I’ve never…
I think that’s just a bribe in that case isn’t it?
No. It’s called earmarking. It’s super common. I can do it at my local university.
Here’s my $1000 donation, but you must remove one testicle from each member of your team…regardless of their assigned sex at birth. For $2000, we would like two. Thank you!
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
I don’t know where you donate, but Open Collective doesn’t have a field for “enter your demands to accept this donation”
There’s just no way to do that
You could contact the company directly if you were doing a large donation/wanted to negotiate.
Here’s $100 but you have to spend it on materials for research, not executive salaries. It’s called a restricted donation. You may hear that colleges and universities have million dollar endowments but still send out fundraising emails. This is because you might get a $200k donation from an alumni that is only to be used on tuition for student athletes and, yeah, you take that money because that means $200k that you don’t need to spend there… But that you can only spend there.
So you’ve got to keep that money around unless you use it for those things.
All grants come with strings. You can go to grants.gov and click on hundreds of them.
I don’t know where you donate, but Open Collective doesn’t have a field for “enter your demands to accept this donation”
There’s just no way to do that
I’m sure you’re aware that businesses, especially with donations of that size, might engage in emailing contacts prior to donating…
No. Some do, but all the donations I’ve gotten from businesses on OC were just made.
Lots of companies just tell their staff how much, and they hung on OC and make those donations. They don’t see a point to contacting them.
Grants aren’t donations.
I don’t do software development, but I am enough of a nerd to know what python.
Good on them. The American far-right (and it’s proxies) need to be shown that they are compromised individuals that lack integrity.
I very rarely do any python development, but it sounds like it’s time to make a donation.
Imagine, despite pythons coming in all sorts of diverse patterns, having to hire only albino ones.
And that’s what made me finally donate to Python after a little over a decade of using it.
It never occurred to me to donate to a language!
I donate to languages daily by coming up with new words for free! Entguavisation Tascratulusly
🎶🎶 I use a word that don’t mean nothin’, like loopdid. 🎶🎶
That must be typescript.
I don’t really like Python, but I’m also tempted to donate just to support them for this.
Good
Ever since Guido stepped down I’m glad I rowed in behind Python. I like the guy, but the leadership there now has just been unimpeachable on issues like this, same with the local chapter in my country.
It does not matter how much money you do or don’t have, there is no sense pretending there is any sustainable path forward without a conscious commitment to inclusivity.
That’s just it: a sustainable path isn’t in it. They want that to not even be an option. They want to burn it all twice as fast so they can buy bigger yachts.
that pic is me when someone offers me to learn javascript
Can I interest you in learning Brainfuck?
ive played with it before
There’s a joke about whitespace here somewhere, I just know it.
python chooses insolvency over loosening restrictions on rightfully white space
/j
Python refuses to enforce strict whites’ space rules.
(I tried going in that direction first before realizing Python does enforce whitespace rules)
Yeah kinda what it’s known for as far as code nesting goes.
“whitespace not whites space”
Paying companies to be racist, what a world.
White women are the biggest beneficiaries of DEI. So who’s being racist by being against DEI exactly?
The DEI people are against are policies that mandate discriminatory practices, making someone’s race/gender a qualification. It’s wild that people here actually support discrimination in hiring.
Say you don’t understand dei, without saying you don’t understand dei
You have it backwards. DEI ensures it’s not just the same good ol boy hired as usual (which is what the current good ol boy employer wants)
This is where everyone here is being disingenuous, or are just completely ignoring opponents of DEI. When have opponents of DEI called for overlooking meritorious minorities? When have they called for discrimination? Because they must have explicitly done so if DEI combats this.
I know what the stated goals of DEI are, and it sounds good, but I also know how it’s often implemented: quantitative goals and affirmative action. These are discriminatory practices.
People routinely admit that white women are the biggest beneficiaries of DEI, calculated from things such as their access to STEM jobs (eg. IBM setting a goal of 50% female engineers), then they go right back to saying that hiring based on gender is actually not DEI. Pure gaslighting.
All true. The problem is, remove DEI and you hand the reigns directly to the baked-in systemic advantage of white men(tall, attractive with hair specifically). It’s like the ocean. DEI is a small seawall trying to make the slightest difference. It’s not perfect and takes work but the alternative is a flood of self-affirming bias where you end up with products and services created by them but supposedly for everyone.
I’d do the same
DEI is just the easiest way for the administration to be racist and commit hate based firings without repercussions.
Glad people are refusing to sign an agreement with the fascists as THEY WILL take money back at at moment in time. They are very fragile people trying to compensate for being cucks.
I don’t believe that NSF had any ability to fire people from PSF.
Even if they will take the money back, isn’t that just a interest-free loan? It doesn’t seem like there is any drawback in your hypothetical.
That assumes you have that kind of cash to pay them back when they come knocking…
They’re buying influence. Its pretty clear.
The US government needs to buy influence? And they are doing that by giving grants that organizations apply for?
Do you think this is an isolated instance? They’re probably trying to do this a lot.
And if course they’re trying to influence other orgs to their will. Why else would you do this?
I think you are severely underestimating the level of influence the US government already has. NIST is a US Agency. Much of research in the US is done at the behest of the government. My local university had to comply* with anti-DEI policy to continue receiving federal funds ( it’s primary source of income).
Influencing the foundation of a, quite frankly bad, programming language is not really that impactful, especially considering that the foundation apparently only has 14 employees.
*In case you were wondering the only change they had to make was discontinuing LGBT work anniversaries. So you can probably see why I view this anti-anti-DEI fear mongering with some skepticism. The reality is that racial bias in an organization is very difficult to actually prove, regardless of whether it is pro or anti minority, so anti-DEI constraints simply prohibit explicit biasing.
What about the people who make DEI a condition of getting money? Im all for equality etc, but Im 100% against people getting preferential treatment/consideration because of what they look like, have between their legs, or who they love. More often than not, these programs are little more than boxticking to wash the public profile. See Activision for example.
We keep on talking about racism in hiring, but never actually address the main issue in places like the US, which is that historic racism set black families back half a centaury in terms of wealth accumulation. This in turn has limited access to higher education, which limits the ability to compete in the market against an over whelming white population that has had access. The way forward seems to have been clear for a very long time, reparations. Any families that were held back through systemic racism, should be getting money from the banks and companies that discriminated against black families, causing multiple generations of inequality. Levelling up families allows them to send their kids to better schools, grow up in better areas, and compete in the work place at an equal level.
This cherry picking, and surface level tokenism does not work. It has worked for the past 50 years, and a new approach is needed. One that isnt just “You need a random black face in your team.”. Actual real, and lasting change, cant happen that way. The change needs to be at the roots of the issue. And that means money going to families, that gives their kids better access to education and to making friends too. As a lot of their future will also be “Not what you know, who you know.”.
You are proposing a solution that has no real way to be implemented. How would you distribute the reparations? Would just having one ancestor who was a slave be enough? What if you also have an ancestor who was a wealthy merchant? What if your family immigrated after slaver, but before Jim Crow? Does having multiple ancestors stack? What if the company that took advantage of your ancestors doesn’t exist anymore? There is no perfect system, but I think you’re underestimating how many problems your system has.
Sure it does.
Wells Fargo, Bank of America (then Bank of Italy and later Bank of America National Trust & Savings), J.P. Morgan / Chase Manhattan Bank, Prudential Insurance Company, FHA (Federal Housing Administration), all have details records showing their part in systemic racism that made sure the black families couldnt get a mortgage, even when they were on the same financial footing as white families.
National Association of Real Estate Boards (NAREB), Levitt & Sons (builder of Levittown, NY & PA), Chicago Real Estate Board, St. Louis Real Estate Exchange, Los Angeles Realty Board, enforced segregation through racial covenants, steering, and blockbusting.
It wouldnt be until the Fair Housing Act(1968) that this practice was made illegal.
Will be easy? No. Can it be done? Most likely, as long as you are OK with banks and real estate agencies and uber rich who profited getting fucked so hard they bounce. Should it be done? In my opinion, yes. America is race. And black families were held back on the starting line on purpose.
It wasn’t just banks.
And black families were held back on the starting line on purpose.
It wasn’t just Black families either.
You also didn’t answer my question about how you handle families who came to America after slavery. You’ve made your answer simple by ignoring a lot of the issues I brought up. From a practical angle, it’s far easier to implement DEI. It also wouldn’t have to be implemented long term. It would only really be necessary for those with an unfair education. If you fix the public school system, you could retire DEI once those school kids enter the workforce.
I didnt answer that because what Im saying has exactly nothing to do with slavery. Im talking about early 1900s, when the boom started.
Let me be CRYSTAL fucking clear. FUCK DEI!!! ITs a racist and sexist program that solves not a fucking thing. It just moves the goal posts of discrimination. I cant fucking fart loud enough to say how much I want that shit gone. Just because the Orange prick said the same thing, doesnt make it wrong. FUCK DEI!
Wrongggggggggggg
You don’t understand dei. You don’t know what you are talking about.
DEI isn’t preferential treatment. It’s a methodology for correcting past, and preventing future preferential treatment.
And yes, I read your entire comment. The last 2 paragraphs are fine, but your first paragraph misses the mark by miles. What you describe in the first paragraph isn’t DEI.
Yes it is. I know the culture war disagrees with anything and everything that pissing all over DEI, but thats exactly what it is. You cant correct past or future mistakes that way. You either hire/recruit based on merit, or you dont. Theres no in between.
https://time.com/7291474/supreme-court-reverse-discrimination
The case was brought by Marlean Ames against the Ohio Department of Youth Services, where she started working in 2004. In 2019, she applied for a promotion, but was turned down and a colleague with less seniority—who was a lesbian woman—received the promotion instead. Ames was later demoted and her previous role was given to another colleague who had less seniority, a gay man.
I’m sure readers saw the title of this article and thought “what!? White straight men are the most represented group in businesses!” Nonetheless, an employment tribunal in the United Kingdom recently held that a strong candidate was deliberately not hired because he was a white, heterosexual male. See Furlong v Chief Constable of Cheshire Police, Case No. 2405577/2018 (U.K.).
It would be a mistake to conclude that discrimination based on sex, race, or sexual orientation only goes one way. I have loads of examples in the US and elsewhere, of “positive discrimination” by bad actors. And even more, where its clear as fuck, it was only something they were doing to wash their shitty reputations.
It looks like in the US supreme court decision the justices clarified the law and kicked it back to the lower courts. The final case hasn’t been ruled on yet. In the past, majority groups were expected to have stronger evidence for discrimination. This decision changes that. I don’t think that’s a great decision for minorities and I’m not sure using the current US Supreme court’s motivations, which don’t seem to be at all concerned with precedent, are a great basis for how we should frame our understanding of racial justice.
The UK case seems to indicate a ruling on the narrow principle of ‘positive action’ which is fundamentally distinct from ‘positive discrimination.’ You seem to be mixing those two ideas up a bit.
The judicial system is inherently conservative. It’s designed to be that way. And just because a judge or group of judges decides something doesn’t make it the right thing to do. This whole ‘reverse discrimination’ push is simply undoing the progress of the civil rights movement, unfortunately.
Im not mixing anything up. Just because you call it a different name, doesnt change what it is. Racism.
What seems to be happening is that a lot of people, yourself included, seem to think that the answer to past discrimination is more discrimination. And in case you all missed it, Trump has been voted in not once, but twice, because a very large group of people felt the deck being stacked against them.
Outside of that, you look to things like Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings and other media franchises, were the mantra “Male and pale is stale” was openly said around their production over the past decade. The result is that young men and boys and all but abandoned those things. Because they are sick of being told that being straight, white and male is a bad thing. Its so bad, that Disney is now looking for another franchise to buy because they have no idea how to get genz and younger bums back on seats. And further to that, in social media world in general, the hate and generalisation of straight white males has gotten so bad that around the world young boys are increasingly being taken in by right wingers who dont treat them like rapists and abusers. Its almost like all this over correction has come back to bite everyone on the ass…
Black, white, gay, straight, man, woman, and everyone in between should be judged on just one thing. Their ability to do that job. If your the best person for the job, you should get it. End of. Once you start making excuses, once you start excluding people, you start making enemies. The only way to make sure that black people have the same start in life, if to make sure there is money and access to education that allows them to take control of their own lives, and puts them on a level playfield. Then you dont need to lower standards, or make excuses, or discriminate at all. You just hire the best person for the job, and you go about your day.
Quite a mouthful. Too bad none of it addresses the legal nuances you completely ignored in your previous assessment.
My development policy is to use
black.Honestly I’m all on board with formatters that just make decisions for you. I don’t give a fuck if it’s my preferred style. I just want the entire codebase to be consistent.
I feel vindicated. I thought I was the only one.
The only change I made to black was setting the line length to 120, because its default of 88 is too short and oof that number means something else already.
My current team is using 120 too and honestly I don’t like it. 88 is great when you work with split screen and I do that a lot. Short lines are easier to read than wrapped lines for my brain.
My terminal with a comfortably large font, full screen at 1080p, has 238 columns. That should be enough to split screen 2x120 column editors for all but the very longest lines, and you have even more room if you reduce the font size a point or have a 1440p monitor.
8 is a lucky number in China. 88 is just double that. Fuck nazis. Stop letting them take things that never belonged to them from the rest of the world
There’s some truth to this, but I don’t want to be the white guy telling the new hire in the US in 2025 “our line length is 88”. They probably won’t think anything of it, but if they do they probably won’t think I’m into Chinese superstition.
Good on them to stick to their guns!
