Edited for legibility
Literally all you post about is “don’t vote Biden”.
You always capitalise Russia, but then generalise “the west”.
You never go against Trump or the Republicans. Always just “don’t vote Democrats”.
And weirdly you seem to try this “both sides” bullshit even when you do the rare comment about something other than “don’t vote genocide Joe”, like in this thread where you’re talking about the Russo-Ukrainian war carefully without taking a side on the issue.
So, how would one recognise an actual Russian troll, btw? Like… they probably wouldn’t admit to being one, would they?
Yeah this account basically just flipped to constantly posting Israel war memes a month ago.
Along with quite a few others. Before that, it was all economy all the time
You specifically should know better.
Removed by mod
I have no idea if you are a shill or a genuine person. But, there are some behaviors that are bad things to do regardless of which you are:
Recasting your opponents’ views as other ones that make less sense and are easier to argue against, consistently, as a way of muddling the discourse, instead of being honest about what you’re saying and what you are disagreeing with and why, and just letting your point of view speak for itself whether or not I personally would agree with itoh my fuck. this is gold. screenshot, archive.org, federate. put it on a tshirt. use it as a new isntance url.
I have no idea if you are a shill or a genuine person.
Look at their user name.
Removed by mod
Haha, good one coming from you Linkerbaan
You said, how could anyone have assaulted this woman (or anyone else involved in this discussion), when I just saw a photo of her, and she doesn’t look pregnant to me.
But sure, I’m the Charlie Kelly in this mailroom. Okay. I wasn’t even gonna bring it up again.
I’m unsure why your favorite pastime is writing 7 paragraph long essays that fail basic fact checks which sole purpose appears to be to defend Joe Biden committing Genocide.
Recasting your opponents’ views as other ones that make less sense and are easier to argue against, consistently, as a way of muddling the discourse, instead of being honest about what you’re saying and what you are disagreeing with and why, and just letting your point of view speak for itself whether or not I personally would agree with it Consistently posting a drumbeat of memes in support of your viewpoint (within that same dishonest framing)
I’m reflecting the bad-faith recasting I see in some other memes here, no more no less. I’m happy peacefully existing without creating any memes at all, but when I see a misrepresentation of my view in a dumb meme by a user that I’ll leave nameless (they can’t defend themselves here right now anyway), I feel an urgent need to lob that turd back at them. I think .world has successfully sheltered themselves from a world-view that challenges a particular self-image, a world-view I happen to share, and I feel an honest need to make my existence known.
At this point I don’t care what the response is, but if my silly memes are enough to warrant suspicion of being a troll then fuck it. I find the very serious democratic pandering around here childish, so i’ll continue matching it with my own childish representations.
But the message you’re sending doesn’t match the outcome you say you want. I think that’s why you are getting these maybe unfair accusations.
At this point I simply do not care. If the only thing that comes out of these memes is a string of activity in the modlog I’d consider that to be a point well-made.
I’m reflecting the bad-faith recasting I see in some other memes here, no more no less.
You are welcome to your strategy, but I think “let’s yell at the people who wee in the pool every day, and tell them not to” is a better solution than “well in that case imma start weeing in the pool too.” You’re still gonna be in a pool full of wee. Why is that success?
Meme’s are piss. They’re irreverent and mirthful and reductive by nature.
When there aren’t any rules against pissing in the pool, the only way to get someone to stop pissing on you might just be to piss on them back.
Sure, I could leave the pool, but that pisser will just pick someone else to piss on, until there’s noone left except the people who enjoy that guy’s piss (or maybe just tolerate it)
Tired talking points.
“I know trump is bad, but democrats are worse!”
“Republicans at least show who they really are, democrats decieve their constituents!”
“I’m not for Russia, but Ukraine should just ceasefire, so there’s no more bloodshed.”
“I know genocide would be even worse under Republicans, but Genocide Joe should concede and let someone else run.”
“Both sides are the same, so a vote for either side is a vote for the same thing.”
They are more than likely a sock puppet of one of the banned spreaders of propaganda.
CLASSIC LINKERBAAN
lol… they got banned.
Did they? I blocked his dumb ass after nonstop political astroturfing posts
Not Linkerbaan, OP. Dude admitted he was here to disrupt the election process.
You always capitalise Russia
But… that’s how you’re supposed to write it.
So, how would one recognise an actual Russian troll, btw?
Look, you yourself just capitalized the R.
It’s not the grammar.
Think a guy who says something like “come on guys, let go find some females”
I don’t see how this is similar.
Do you think it’s unusual to speak in terms of “Russia vs the West”?
I don’t see how
I believe you.
You always capitalise Russia, but then generalise “the west”.
…
You’re supposed to capitalize the name of countries, and not geo-poltical regions…
Hell, by your logic since you capitalized trump and republicans it means you support them and not that you’re fighting autocorrect to make a very very small point.
So, how would one recognise an actual Russian troll, btw? Like… they probably wouldn’t admit to being one, would they?
One thing people look for is an unfamiliarity with the convoluted rules of English. Like not knowing what gets capitalized…
But by 2024 most people have realized social media comments rarely have that much thought put into them. If say a good way is looking at where they spend their time. We know from a recent study (can’t be bothered to Google it right now).
But it’s safe to say people with nefarious reasons for posting wouldn’t spend their time on one of the smallest social media platforms.
Like, just think about it rationally for a second. Why wouldn’t they do it on Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Instagram, TikTok, or somewhere else their audience would be tens or hundreds of millions? Why spend the same amount of effort where even if it takes off, your audience is like not going to exceed more than a few thousand at most?
I’m just fucking tired of people constantly accusing each other of being professional state actors.
It’s something trump would do…
You’re supposed to capitalize the name of countries, and not geo-poltical regions
I have no interest in the substance of the argument which has nothing to do with the grammar, but, yes you are. “We need to go west to reach the river” is lower case, “we need to align with the West to reach our goals” is capitalized.
Correct. Trump and Republicans are also proper nouns.
Look up. The point went right over your head.
That’s a HUGE wall of text to illustrate that you don’t understand proper grammar. You absolutely capitalize the West when referring to a nation.
You’re supposed to capitalize the name of countries, and not geo-poltical regions…
It’s not about grammar rules. It’s about the psychology behind the specific choices.
Like using “females” in a social setting. It tells a lot.
Why wouldn’t they do it on Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Instagram, TikTok, or somewhere else their audience would be tens or hundreds of millions?
Because these things aren’t mutually exclusive, that’s why. They’re doing it on allplatforms. You found your way here. Do you think the average or even specifically trained Russian is so much dumber they couldn’t find their way here…?
That sounds rather racist, bro.
Do you think the average or even specifically trained Russian is so much dumber they couldn’t find their way here…?
I’m sure they could…
I’m saying it would be a waste of their time.
I hope you don’t need another reply to understand, you’ll have to ask someone else.
I’m saying it would be a waste of their time.
Why exactly? Catching trolls is much easier on popular sites like the ones you listed. Sure, there are more of them, but also more of them are constantly flagged. Fediverse has no such overarching moderation, as you well know.
You don’t see how that’s a massive advantage?
I hope you don’t need another reply to understand, you’ll have to ask someone else.
in this thread where you’re talking about the Russo-Ukrainian war carefully without taking a side on the issue.
I think russia is in the wrong and deserves to lose, but I think Ukraine does not have the numbers to win on their own and I think the US knows this but is only really after hurting russia’s economic ability to pursue their further imperial ambitions. Since russia has entered a wartime economy I don’t think this is likely anymore and we are creating a situation where russia has no reason not to continue and a larger conflict with NATO is likely.
Does that help clarify?
Literally all you post about is “don’t vote Biden”.
Close: I post a lot of agitation for democrats to demand better from their party, and i’ve mocked the impulse to signal loyalty despite knowing what the democrats are doing is wrong, but I have never encouraged anyone not to vote. Democrats have no reason to address criticism if they are confident voters will turn out regardless, that’s the impetus of my strategic agitation. I could be wrong and it could be misguided but I don’t think it is.
You always capitalise[sic] Russia, but then generalise[sic] “the west”.
I don’t know how to take this, considering it’s a comment about proper capitalization that’s filled with typos/misspellings. If i’ve ever failed to capitalize another country’s name it isn’t on purpose. Since you’re more familiar with my comment history i’ll let you point out which ones i’ve made that mistake in and I’ll correct them as needed. I’ll even de-capitalize russia if you want, i don’t give a fuck.
So, how would one recognise[sic] an actual Russian troll, btw? Like… they probably wouldn’t admit to being one, would they?
I’ve repeatedly had this conversation with you, I don’t feel it necessary to have it again. You can suspect me of being a troll if you want but since it’s not possible for me to prove to you otherwise I don’t think it’s worthy of addressing. Mods can verify my IP address area if they feel its warranted. It’s making me uncomfortable that i’ve attracted this much attention from you though, out of concern of being doxxed I’m thinking I should start using a VPN.
Please stop harassing me.
You stop doing shit posts lying and misrepresenting things, and people stop giving you shit for them. Sound like a deal?
Such thin skin it’s pretty cringe-worthy. For how much smack you talk.
Just out of curiosity, what was the misrepresentation this time?
It’s a shitpost kiddo. You know exactly what they are. It’s the reason you posted them. Who do you think you’re fooling? Because if anyone’s being fooled it isn’t us :-). And if you’re going to do it at least have the decency to not feign ignorance and cry when others call you out on it.
It’s as high-quality of a meme as it’s responding to, chum :)
Back and forth, forever ))<>((
I didn’t say it wasn’t. Just that you’re bad at this.
))<>((
<3
Wait, responding to you, calling out the obvious flaws in your argument, the fact that you constantly post this shit…
Is harassing?
Fascist bullies are some of the most fragile crybabies whenever they meet some repercussions for their words and actions.
Dude ended up getting banned for admitting he is here to disrupt the election process.
why would you lie about something so easy to disprove?
What am I lying about exactly? It’s in the mod logs.
Lmao, no, criticism is fine (if there was any in this comment), it’s the paranoid obsession with me being a ‘russian troll’ and tagging me around the fediverse that’s harassment. He’s had a bunch of comments removed for it already, that’s not an unfounded accusation.
Most everyone in this comment section thinks that of you. It’s not a big stretch man. You’ve given little indication that it could be otherwise, so it’s not a huge leap to make that connection.
People have been banned for being propagandists. One even admitted to it. I can’t imagine you’d ever admit that what you’re doing is not on the level, so unfortunately people are left to base their opinions on observations.
And your comment history stands as evidence to many that you’re not here to post in good faith.
People have been banned for being propagandists. One even admitted to it. I can’t imagine you’d ever admit that what you’re doing is not on the level, so unfortunately people are left to base their opinions on observations.
I’ll make the debate easy for you: I am doing agitative-propaganda. My goal is to agitate liberals into taking action against the genocide their party is supporting. My memes are intended as a counter-balance to those other liberal-propaganizing memes that seek to rationalize, normalize, and dismiss the political problems electoralism simply cannot address.
Please pass this comment along as evidence for my community ban, on some level it would be a relief to not have to deal with the self-valorizing liberal propaganda that seems to be the norm.
No… you’re just agitating people for the purpose of spreading anti-democracy propaganda. The evidence is in the fact that you have zero negative posts/comments that are critical of the right- along with the lists of things others have pointed out.
And as another has pointed out- you’re not going to admit to the truth of what you’re here for, so the evidence will have to be told through your actions. And they speak loud and clear.
Pretty bold to straight up say you’re doing propaganda. And then say that it would be a relief to not have to do so anymore.
You do realize you can just stop, right? Everyone will be the happier for it.
all media is propaganda
You always capitalise[sic] Russia, but then generalise[sic] “the west”.
What kind of US Defaultism is this? Capitalise and generalise are 100% correct in British English.
I honestly did not know there were alternate British spellings of those words. All I know is my spellcheck was flagging them, and i only know the American spelling.
The broader point remains.
Australia and Ireland checking in, the american spelling is the alternative!
Oh I’ve got you blocked.
Doesn’t work like it does on Reddit though, so I still see your shitposts. As long as I encounter your posts, I will keep replying to them.
Too bad.
Like I’ve said and like everyone keeps saying, you’re really bad at this.
We all have to take care of ourselves sometimes.
i dont get it… broad democratic support === fascism?
i always though facism was a much more specific construct… ie a far-right, authoritarian, ultra-nationalistic political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition
- It is. Trump equals actual fascism in its full terrifying form, which is why it is a big deal to defeat him even though the current alternative are largely uninspiring corporate-friendly goons
- Biden has paused some weapons shipments because of Israel’s war crimes, and is pushing to stop the killing; the Republicans are specifically the party that’s trying to override him on that and make sure they get their weapons and encourage them to do more killing. That doesn’t in any capacity excuse 8 months and counting of the Democrats funding and supporting Israel’s crimes, generally speaking… but it does make it a little weird for someone who cares deeply about the Palestinian people to single out the Democrats as the problem that needs to be addressed, in order to help the Palestinians.
Oh get over yourself.
He paused one shipment, then a week later sent a shipment twice as big.
Such mental gymnastics to say when Trump does it it’s actual fascism bit when Biden does it it’s like not even really fascism, man, and… BuT tRuMp!!!@!@
We have 2 far right fascist parties in America. That simple.
week later sent a shipment twice as big.
Citation? I am genuinely asking; I looked around for information about what happened after the “pause”, or what weapons it did and didn’t apply to, and I couldn’t find anything.
The rest of your message is a such a cartoonish misrepresentation of what I am actually saying that I think it would be pointless to engage with. @[email protected] - see, it is frustrating when someone assigns you an imaginary viewpoint and starts arguing super aggressively against this thing that isn’t what you are actually saying, isn’t it? 🥲
We have 2 far right fascist parties in America. That simple.
Disagree. Trump represents real fascism in the US, but US international policy under both parties has repeatedly supported fascism and authoritarianism abroad.
Democrats have enjoyed the aesthetics of egalitarianism domestically while contributing to the problem of authoritarianism abroad in service of their global ambitions, and that is the contradiction i’m pointing to.
Both sides are not the same, but they share important similarities that should absolutely be opposed.
I’m sorry. I read what you are saying, and cannot fathom how your brain survives those gymnastics without disintegrating.
“both parties has repeatedly supported fascism and authoritarianism”
Literally in your first sentence of your response, which is saying you disagree with “We have 2 far right fascist parties in America. That simple.”
Cant make this shit up.
Acknowledging there is a distinction to be made between the parties is important if you want to be taken seriously.
There’s a distinction to be made between convenient support of fascism abroad as a matter of suiting your interests and leveling that fascism against your own people. I don’t shy away from that distinction, and it doesn’t negate the critique being leveled against democrats that pardon themselves for that fascistic activity simply because they have a more pleasant appearance domestically.
No.
Fascism is fascism.
Fascism isn’t a tool to be used when convenient for you. Fascism is bad.
If you participate in fascism, you are a fascist.
There’s the fascism you conduct and there’s the fascism you support.
Fascism isn’t a tool to be used when convenient for you. Fascism is bad.
Well yea, I agree. Maybe we need like a rating system of fascism? Or maybe subtypes? Maybe Trump is fascism full-fat and democrats are fascism-lite? Even hell has 7 circles.
If you tell a Democrat they’re the same as Hitler I’m gonna guess they aren’t gonna take the point seriously. Just a guess.
Disagree. Trump represents real fascism in the US, but US international policy under both parties has repeatedly supported fascism and authoritarianism abroad.
Democrats have enjoyed the aesthetics of egalitarianism domestically while contributing to the problem of authoritarianism abroad in service of their global ambitions, and that is the contradiction i’m pointing to.
Both sides are not the same, but they share important similarities that should absolutely be opposed.
See I agree with pretty much 100% of this, with Israel as exhibits 1, 2, and 3 at least and probably more
There’s a lot of overlap between us, I think the primary disagreement is over efficacy of agitation (and the form of).
Tru dat
Yep. Screaming hyperbolically. Framing things childishly, in false black and white. While alienating allies is always a bad means of agitation. Who’da think it, right?
That doesn’t in any capacity excuse 8 months and counting of the Democrats funding and supporting Israel’s crimes
Yup
but it does make it a little weird for someone who cares deeply about the Palestinian people to single out the Democrats as the problem that needs to be addressed, in order to help the Palestinians
Not when democrats are supposed to be the ones fighting for justice and they aren’t.
I guess my question then is, what’s your solution?
- Deciding not to vote no matter what, will either have no impact or it’ll make things exponentially worse (both for the Palestinians and for any outside-the-paradigm movement that is trying to change the system at a deeper level)
- Putting pressure on the Democrats in some way I feel like could work
- Direct action could work, basically that’s the same as #2
What would you want to do?
I think this might be the third (or maybe fourth?) time i’ve responded to this question from you, but since you keep asking it I will continue answering it for others (since I think you either don’t care what I think, you keep forgetting somehow, or you’re not asking it for the benefit of your own understanding)
What would you want to do?
First I will make it known: go and vote for harm reduction. If you personally feel incapable of voting for Biden for reasons relating to Israel I think that’s valid, but still go vote for every other position at the very least. If your concern for politics starts and ends with federal election day then you are then free to check-out. The following applies for every other day except election day itself.
but
Putting pressure on democrats1 is broadly the only way to stir action (in my opinion). So long as the electoral status-quo denies any platform for meaningful dissent then the only way remaining is to focus your energy outside of that electoral system. I do not think campaigning for a third party is a worthwhile effort (because electoral pressures still limit what even a third party can do, and because our capitalistic system effectively kneecaps any actual short-term successes). I think engendering dissatisfaction with democrats is the most effective strategy, not only because it would push them to move their platform to keep their coalition, but it also increases the body of people willing to spend effort outside of elections for direct action. At least in online spaces, the only effective strategy is agitation.
There is a spectrum of agitation that I think is effective, I won’t pretend to be the expert, but I think democratic apologia is generally unhelpful because it provides a feeling of reassurance that the limited involvement liberals have is sufficient to drive progress. Continual progress requires continual pressure, and giving a pat on the back because some policy or other is ‘more than nothing’ provides reason to feel good about what’s been done and gets in the way of higher aspirations. (If you didn’t catch it, this is a bit of a dig at you. I don’t think modest progress is anything to celebrate about when the bigger issues are still looming). There’s also a bit of self-selection here, because this obviously doesn’t work for a bunch of people (and as I continue beating that drum more people start muting me). But the people who happen to agree that more progress is needed are likely to push back against attempts at solidifying that partisan consensus, and that’s valuable.
The existence of Trump simultaneously complicates things and makes things easier, because on the one hand the threat of his existence is real (i do not deny that threat), but it also raises the urgency for action. Targeting agitation at the people who exist in the overlap between extreme concern over the rise of fascism and people who broadly agree that change is needed is the sweet spot. I don’t feel bad about hammering on that sweet spot, I think it’s created enough friction for some with more modest political leanings to find more ways to engage. There’s an honest concern that Biden cannot win on a pro-israel platform, so that’s the most urgent issue that needs addressing (it also makes the message clear so it can be addressed: address this issue or risk losing needed support). A more broadly anti-Democrat message would be more likely to inspire apathy, not action. If the Israel-Palestine conflict did not exist then a different one would be the target (you constantly point to this as evidence of bad-faith argumentation, but there’s a well of policy that needs changing so of course there’d be something else to push on).
Hopefully that answers your question. Maybe i’ll make this a copypasta for future questions along a similar line.
1: I mean democrats broadly, not just democrats in power. pressure on political actors involves engendering discontent among their base, otherwise agitation is ineffectual
Yeah, fair enough. I keep forgetting I think partly just because of my own brain, and partly because the logic of it doesn’t make sense to me.
Basically, directing the energy at pretty-left voters, turning them off from Democrats, and hoping that it will influence them before the election and they’ll be vocal about that and Democrats will pick up on that disaffection (with their super competent responsive intel operation about what voters want), and respond to it, and the voters will pick up on that and get un-disaffected and start supporting Democrats again, that’s what will produce a more lefty Democratic Party which appeals to the electorate better - like it doesn’t seem like it would work that way. It seems like the lesson of 1968 and 2016 is that when voters get disaffected from Democrats, the Democrats stick to their Republican-lite guns anyway and lose elections, and then we get Republicans in charge and sometimes also the Democrats tack to the right.
It seems like supporting a third party, or targeting the Democrats with specific demands about what you or your coalition wants, or directly supporting a non electoral solution which could produce good things - all of those would be way better than just kneecapping the Democrats to the voters based on (perfectly valid in this case) criticisms of their positions.
Idk, I’m not trying to go in circles and I apologize about being thick on picking up on it - but that’s the point of me talking about the 1932 German elections and Ralph Nader and all that, previously. I get what you are saying but I am having trouble envisioning your agitation producing the result that you say it is intended to produce.
Yea, I get it. I’m in too deep with being a relentless prick that I can’t really turn it off, and honestly the more resistance I run into the more blinded by indignant fury I feel. I’ll acknowledge there’s an emotional dimension to this that may defy logic.
It seems like supporting a third party, or targeting the Democrats with specific demands about what you or your coalition wants, or directly supporting a non electoral solution which could produce good things - all of those would be way better than just kneecapping the Democrats to the voters based on (perfectly valid in this case) criticisms of their positions.
In order for any IRL direct action to have the legs to be meaningful, there needs to be enough discontent for people to join that cause to begin with. For what it’s worth, i feel pretty confident i’ve been very clear about what i’m critiquing, and what response would be acceptable to stop agitation. Taking it directly to democratic leadership happens everywhere but here, so that’s why it seems like i’m just making noise for the hell of it. The more direct action happens in other forums, via other means. But creating a demand within the base validates those voices that are speaking to leadership, too. They both need doing, but only one happens here.
I also think i’ve made my perspective on the 1932 German elections clear elsewhere, so I’ll let those other comments to speak for themselves. Having a loyal coalition is not enough, we have to accomplish more if we’re interested in more than just kicking the can.
I feel somewhat comforted by this being a pretty small space filled with otherwise perfectly motivated democratic voters, I don’t think i’m doing a noticeable amount of damage to democrats (in terms of how people end up voting in november). Nothing I can say is going to make people feel less motivated by trump’s fascistic rhetoric, so I imagine the most i imagine myself really doing is pushing a handful of people into further-left political spaces. If people vote in november but are furious about having to do it, that might be the best-case scenario. People deciding it’s completely pointless would be worst-case, but I’m sure that if that was happening I’d have already been kicked out, or at the very least it would be limited to a pretty small group.
Even if it’s ineffectual it’s at least a little cathartic.
I don’t think there is any level of shortage in America of people who are disaffected with the Democrats. I think mostly what they need is something to vote for, and a realistic organization that can give it to them.
That’s what fascism is, yes. The point being made, I think, is that Democrats are claiming to be anti-fascist while also supporting a fascist government in Israel.
makes sense, thanks!
i dont get it… broad democratic support === fascism?
No, the logic is actually:
Israel == a fascist state
Democrats continue supporting Israel -> Democrats are supporting a fascist state
Saying ‘we are an anti-fascist coalition’ is in tension with that coalition supporting a fascist state.
Ya… “far right” doesn’t mean “republican” and “democrat” doesn’t mean “left”.
Maybe relative to eachother, but I don’t even buy that anymore.
Hilary dragged the Democrat party to the right. Biden has dragged it to full fascism levels of right.
The genocide is the big “he is doing a fascism” clue.
The 93 billion dollars for police militarization and creation of cop cities around the nation in the likeness of Atlantas is the second biggest clue.
broad democratic support
Meaning, of course:
-
Israel has bought off political leaders from both parties for decades.
-
Republican voters won’t ever criticize their own team.
-
There is a MASSSSIVE push to turn the Dem party into the same shit show.
I think they meant broad Democratic support, referring to the party
Even if that’s what they meant, Dem voters don’t want to fund a genocide.
But the leaders of both parties do.
Because they’re paid to want that.
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S
And that’s not even accounting for the other side of the money: American arms manufactures
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/reports/capitalizing-on-conflict/defense-contractors
The victims of genocide rarely have the cash to bribe US politicians
ITT:
- The US supports israel because of bribes
- The US supports Israel because it’s an important military platform to launch from in the region
Which is more likely: Democrats are resisting cutting support for Israel because they’re financing their political campaigns, OR, there are legitimate imperial reasons why Israel is an important strategic ally in the region.
Either way, democrats have decided it’s worth turning a blind eye to a genocide that’s happening with their material support.
Either way, democrats
Politicians…
Not Dem voters.
Look, I realize this is going to be unpopular, but idk if this attitude is really helping you here:
Democratic party leaders turn a blind eye toward Israel committing genocide, and then democratic voters tolerate democratic party leaders turning a blind eye toward Israel committing genocide.
Democrats (the politicians) are effectively unaccountable to voters, even if it’s because of a FPTP system you have no control over. At some point they’re gonna do something so egregious that you have to step in and do something, but so far I don’t think enough people have reached that point.
and then democratic voters tolerate democratic party leaders turning a blind eye toward Israel committing genocide.
I see people pushing for that.
Those people don’t seem to remember how close trump was to winning 2020.
It was a very small margin of victory, and this isn’t the only issue that Biden is significantly more conservative than dem voters on.
We’re running a bad candidate in a very important election. And even if it is too late to change candidates, it’s never to let for Joe Biden to start listening to the people who voted him into office 4 years ago instead of ignoring anyone that doesn’t want to just tell him he’s doing a great job and to keep it up.
A president that doesn’t listen to the people who voted them into office, isn’t a good president. And they’re not gonna get as many votes when they run for re-election.
For people like Joe Biden, he can’t afford to lose very many voters. And he’s not going to steal any from trump.
-
Neither here nor there but if you add a black outline or shadow to white text it becomes a lot more readable. See how it kinda blurs with the background in the first panel? On Photoshop you can do this easily by selecting the text layers, right click, blending options.
Thanks, edited
Wow I didn’t even know you could replace a post’s image like that
I worry that post contents don’t get archived somewhere, otherwise it might be tempting for someone to abuse the feature.
But otherwise I think it’s nice!
Do they? I think the bigger issue is the geopolitical value of Israel as an ally.
There being a reason for supporting a fascist state doesn’t negate the fact that they are supporting a fascist state.
This
Russia and China wouldn’t be prolifically seeding ideas about abandoning Israel otherwise. Israel’s an indescribably useful platform for military campaigns.
That’s the same thing.
Take this stupid shit back to hexbear.
As long as “other guy” is worse, that gives license to do anything, including supporting genocide, according to democrats.
You van fully support voting Biden to ensure no Trump without supporting his policies, in particular the policies on Israel. They were wrong before this current ramped up genocide, with a sloe burn genocide.
However, most times when someone is critical in this way its not because they want change, they want to damage Biden, not seek better.
Making political hat with genocide is pretty poor too.
my satan. if every decent person only voted for canidates where they agreed with all their stances and actions then only non decent persons would vote. I really feel like folks don’t understand democracy. Its about compromise its impossible to have a democracy that runs exactly as one would want things to go. The only way to get that is if the one is a dictator.
And a lot of people don’t want to compromise on genocide. I think that’s pretty understandable.
Myself included. Im not going to let the guy whos party complain the current guy is not doing enough for israel and who did that assasination on the iranians and recognized jerusalem as the capital of israel to win.
Ya definitely don’t want Trump to win either. Ideally Biden ends up deciding Israel isn’t worth losing an election over, stops supporting them, and then crushes Trump with the same or more youth votes he got in 2020. Probably with the help of weed legislation, too, but not sure if the young people care about that as much as they used to when I was in the “youth” lol.
ideally republicans can’t win elections anymore and disappear and then its safe for democrats to fission into a more conservative and liberal leaning parties and the incentive to win is to be more left/liberal than the current incentive to be more right.
This assumes that Biden voters want to compromise on genocide. We don’t. We hate it. But life isn’t a storybook. The guy going against the pure evil isn’t a paragon of justice. But that doesn’t mean you give up fighting against pure evil. You prioritize so that you can achieve what is currently achievable, and wait for more to become achievable.
And a lot of people are divisively using a genocide to try and shrink the vote for one candidate when both support it. As the commenter above said, the horrible people won’t care. We all k ow a third party vote is an abstention.
So the choice is vote for the boring candidate that does good things but supports genocide. Or vote for the crazy vindictive candidate that does terrible things and supports genocide and nuking hurricanes.
Or they’re trying to pressure the acting President to change an immoral policy with the threat of lost votes so that he obeys his constituency like he’s in a democracy. He’s got plenty of time to change course and it’s already caused him to make some small measures, like changing his rhetoric and pausing a weapon shipment once.
The term cutting off your nose to spite your face would be appropriate.
I completely agree with pressuring the candidate. However, threatening to lose votes when the opposition might win and do worse damage is a strange kind of brinkmanship that is illogical and doesn’t seem to be working.
I have yet to hear from anyone doing anything co Crete to help the situation who thinks helping trump get elected is good. So, it rings hollow to me. Unfortunately, the ballot box is the most powerful tool at a voters disposal. In this day and age, with money being speech, its not the only option though.
It’s better than doing nothing when tens of thousands of people are dying and a genocide is happening. Unless people are rich, the ballot and protests are all people have, and they’re trying to make protests illegal. I don’t think Palestinians and their friends or families would agree it’s illogical when people demand to do everything to save them, and the idea of solidarity is that you’d want them to do the same for you when they start targeting your group for a genocide. That’s the whole idea of “Never again.” Or like Captain America’s line, “We don’t trade lives.” Of course Trump is bad, but on the other hand, if Biden is actually a good candidate, he’ll shift with popular opinion to keep his job. We shouldn’t have to choose between Hitler and Pol Pot, and if we’re forced to, people shouldn’t be surprised if voter turnout is depressed a bit.
A quick note about how this one is different from other massacres, because that’s usually the next point (why do people care about this situation?) : Unfortunately, we can’t do anything about most of the tragedies and genocides in the world, like the Rohinga or Uyghur, but the thing about this process is that 1) it’s old-style settler colonialism process in the modern day and 2) it’s directly enabled by the US and other imperialist countries, the place where a lot of these commenters live, so they can do something about it by pressuring their leaders and politicians, and starting popular movements to do the same.
To the other people in the comments: if you use Trump as whataboutism you’re the reason why nothing gets done
Every disaster humans face has at least one antisocial freaking out and threatening to take everyone down. It’s got to be one of the most depressing cliches.
Based.
Everyone saying that Biden is the only choice is the reason the Genocide is possible.
Everyone advocating for Biden is advocating for Genocide. This is a fact and no amount of Blue MAGA mental gymnastics changes it.
Not Voting for Biden, voting third party, or not voting are avenues for a trump win. Your implication that we shouldn’t vote Biden, should vote trump, or not vote, is complicit in genocide. Trump has already stated that he will give Israel free rein to “finish the job”, therefore your position to not support Biden seeks to eliminate the overtures for ceasefire attempts by the current Biden admin.
So you’re either actively supporting Israel, supporting trump, or maybe both and a tankie tool to boot.
Trump has already stated that he will give Israel free rein to “finish the job”
Biden has also given Israel free rein, and is sending munitions and billions of dollars to help them.
So Trump might actually be better. Maybe Trump will be too cheap to send billions of dollars.
I don’t even take issue with voting for Biden at this point, I just find ‘we are an anti-fascist coalition’ to be the most self-valorizing shitlib statement i’ve ever seen, especially when everyone here insists they don’t support Israel’s war crimes and think we shouldn’t be defending them.
They don’t get to larp unopposed as anti-fascist revolutionaries when they’ve quietly accepted the choice they’ve been given 5 months out from election day, at least not while I still haven’t been banned for mocking them relentlessly. They should feel miserable about the shit choice like everyone else does.
Removed by mod
I’m re-assessing my opinion on you being honest. This blatant misrepresentation isn’t consistent with my view that you’re merely mistaken.
Let’s see how you like it when it’s served back to you:
I wouldn’t mind if you admit to trying to get Trump elected.
But somehow you feel the need to pretend that your anti-voting campaign is actually about Palestine.
