I never suggested chokes, I said 2 inches WITHOUT a choke. I never suggested one, are you even reading what I write or just glossing over it and making assumptions?

Listen man, in your first paragraph you not only misrepresented what I said but then go on to claim to know my thoughts lol. I never said there would be a crazy wide spray, you’re just making up stuff and/or straight lying while making wild assumptions.

You’re non-stop arguing in bad faith, this is a waste of my time and I’m starting to think you’re just a troll. There sure are idiots in here though, you’re right about that. Take care bud.

no where did I say a 9mm will go through more walls than a slug

Then I must have misunderstood this.

No that shit is going through multiple walls. Handguns will go probably through more.

I did watch the video. And no, it’s not basically a slug. That’s such a silly thing to say. A slug and birdshot behave very differently and would cause very different kinds of damage. Also a slug is going to go through a person at close range, birdshot won’t. That word “basically” is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Also at 10 feet most birdshot will have a 2 inch spread. A slug isn’t having a 2 inch spread, because yes, it does have time to disburse within 10 feet.

They are not creating this massive wall of birdshot that you are claiming. Doesn’t matter what fucking chokes you use.

I said 2 inches, not a massive wall.

Most people have no clue about chokes and there is not a single one giving you a massive wall of pellets at 10’.

Again, I said 2 inches, not a massive wall…

ROFL no just no…there is a reason LEOs have gone from revolvers to double stack handguns…fire fights can last a lot longer than the bullets do and you want to be the last person with them. You %100 should not be skuffling with someone trying to kill you in your home with rounds still in the firearm you are using.

You’re not getting into a shoot out. Most people run when guns start going off. Also, a home owner may have the gun sitting there untouched for months. A revolver allows you to just pull the trigger again on a misfire instead of having to clear the chamber, which uses both hands.

The amount of just wrong and ignorance in this thread is astonishing.

Oh I agree. And people misrepresenting what’s being said isn’t helping either.

Yes, they’re not Marines, meaning it’s even easier for someone to just grab the gun around the corner and make it useless. If you get into a scuffle a hand gun is going to still be able to be used.

Never said it was. Literally said it’s basically a slug at 10’ in a home.

I mean sure, if you don’t care about what’s outside or neighbors. There’s a big difference on penetration there.

Cool, no one is fucking clearing their damn homes like they’re in Iraq…

Exactly my point. Clearing a house effectively with a long gun is much harder than a hand gun. You have to be aware of blind corners and peaks where the barrel can be grabbed before you even see the person. That was my point. A handgun remains effective in a melee.

A 9 mil will go though more walls than a slug? I disagree with that.

Nope, use shotguns and understand how different chokes can impact spread.

With no choke I would expect a 2 inch spread at 10 feet. 2 inches is a lot of grace in a life or death situation.

Yes it has a lot of recoil, but in reality you’re not getting into a shoot out. You’re shooting once, maybe twice, before the encounter is over or into a scuffle.

I couldn’t tell you why, but for some reason when anyone says 29 Palms is nice it makes me upset. Maybe I was just trapped there for too long haha.

Yes, you are taught how to clear corners. The problem is, in a home with tight hallways that’s hard to prevent while staying keeping an alert stance, without having another person to cover you. But hell, if you got a husband and wife team sweeping that would be bad ass.

And you’re correct, birdshot will most likely go into the next room. But it won’t go through multiple rooms and possibly into a close neighbor.

Agreed that’s pistols take much more skill, but I stand by them as the best home defense weapon if you’re able to train. A revolver specifically.

Anddddd you sold me on the claymore.

This place is too full of single minded hate to have a real convo, it’s gotten silly.

So you understand how birdshot is different than a FMJ? A pellet isn’t going through 3 walls, a FMJ is. There is massively more penetration and lethality after penetration. Have you ever shot a gun?

And yes a shotgun is much easier to use, are you crazy? You need much much much less accuracy. You literally can just aim down a hallway and get great coverage.

A long gun is not good for home defense. A pistol is much better in CQC. Also a shotgun does require much less aiming in a high stress situation. You’re just being silly.

Also birdshot is not a slug. Those are literally two different things. That’s two different kinds of ammo, what are you talking about. A slug has way more mass, which is a hug factor in penetration. Wtf is this nonsense.

Source: bored out of my mind in the UMSC stained at 29 Palms and did Mohave Viper combat training stuff a ton. Try to clear a tight building with an AR and you realize how easy it is to just grab a barrel as you try to clear a room.

Not all people voted for it. Also, if you think that healthcare was a deciding topic I would disagree strongly. The party for voted in by being anti woke and anti immigrants.

And where’s the prison for the CEOs that kill thousands with a pen stroke? It seems like people are appalled by a person looking a rich person but don’t show nearly that level of concern for all the people he’s let die. Or hell, every other murder in NY that year.

It’s reality. When civil disobedience doesn’t work people don’t stop, they just stop being civil.

Ladies and gentleman, someone who doesn’t understand nuance.

Enjoy that black and white thinking, I’m sure you’re upset about stuff all the time.

Man, people are really liberal with the word “usable” around here. As if a plain windows install is somehow this thing that can’t be understood or used. Come on, it makes it hard to take these convos seriously. Millions of people use just plain, out of the box, Windows.

Wait so making porn is hot but watching it isn’t? That’s crazy to me

I mean, to take an extreme example: the Holocaust. Yes it eventually ended, but the damage was massive. The people who were in concentration camps didn’t have the luxury of just riding it out and knowing things will get better.

I understand that people can come together, but there are also people with more negative views and intentions coming together as well. There may come a time when you need to fight for what you believe in or even flee for safety. Unrealistic optimism can lead people into a very false sense of security by building a bubble that’s is oblivious to an impending event that could impact them.

The storm may pass, but people may die. Telling those people now that everything will eventually be ok is doing them a disservice.

Just want to call out, there is harm in false comfort. Building a false sense of security and optimism can encourage people to not take preventative actions. Not every storm blows over.

Some fish a pretty sensitive and require a lot of upkeep. These are not those fish.