False. It’s the runoff of a language-rich neighborhood. Stewing in a ditch filled with what looks like mud but smells like a dead family of possums at the bottom of a park trash can.
Also funnily enough, it’s arguably the most representative of the Germanic languages as a whole. It started out as a form of Central Germanic. Then during the Viking Age it was heavily influencd by a Northern Germanic language, Old Norse.
Even the French influence is a very specific variety of French, since the Normans were actually descended from Vikings
The rule that I was taught as a kid was “I before E except after C only if the sound is ee”
It catches all of the examples on the mug except “weird” which gets a pass in my book because it’s weird (Keith’s excluded because proper nouns don’t follow rules). It doesn’t catch “caffeine” but the “ei” in “caffeinated” isn’t pronounced ee where I come from.
I’ve never heard the “ay” rule but it doesn’t seem to catch as many words as the “not ee” rule.
Yeah the whole rule (and really the whole confusion) is about “ee”. Other pronunciations are always spelt “ei” anyway.
It still has exceptions but it catches a lot. And i wish people followed it because I die inside every time someone spells “Wiener” as “Weiner”. The city is called Wien ffs.
Firstly, there is, effectively, no ‘correct’ way to pronounce any damn thing. Languages belong to those who use them. RP English is no more correct than Delhi English, or Alabama English for that matter.
Secondly, I have English speaking friends from just about every US state, and so many countries, and I have never once heard one pronounce foreign as “fore-ayn.” I’d love to know what dialect you speak.
Honestly I wish we would just stop teaching stupid ‘rules’ like this. English is easier to just remember than to try to suss out some sort of rule set by which you can magically spell a word you just heard or magically pronounce a word you have only read. I hated being told to sound shit out when I was a kid.
It’s like “‘c’s make a ‘k’ or ‘s’ noise, sound it out”:
Pacific Ocean
…except after “c” or when sounding like “ay”, as in neighbor or weigh
Follow the rule
I’m seizing this!
I’m sorry to be the one to tell you this, but it’s pronounced sayzing. It has to because of the rule.
How do you pronounce ‘received’? (Or foreign, for that matter…)
It doesn’t work all the time. English is full of nonsense like that. People always only remember half of this rule though.
Because English is three languages in a trench coat.
False. It’s the runoff of a language-rich neighborhood. Stewing in a ditch filled with what looks like mud but smells like a dead family of possums at the bottom of a park trash can.
You isn’t wrong
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Also funnily enough, it’s arguably the most representative of the Germanic languages as a whole. It started out as a form of Central Germanic. Then during the Viking Age it was heavily influencd by a Northern Germanic language, Old Norse.
Even the French influence is a very specific variety of French, since the Normans were actually descended from Vikings
In a french coat
Hon hon hon!
Omelette du fromage?
Four-Ay-Gun
“Received” would be the “except after C” part, not the “sounding like ay” part.
Not sure about “foreign”, or “leisure” for that matter. Maybe foreign used to be pronounced with the “ay” sound. I’m guessing something similar with leisure.
The rule that I was taught as a kid was “I before E except after C only if the sound is ee”
It catches all of the examples on the mug except “weird” which gets a pass in my book because it’s weird (Keith’s excluded because proper nouns don’t follow rules). It doesn’t catch “caffeine” but the “ei” in “caffeinated” isn’t pronounced ee where I come from.
I’ve never heard the “ay” rule but it doesn’t seem to catch as many words as the “not ee” rule.
Yeah the whole rule (and really the whole confusion) is about “ee”. Other pronunciations are always spelt “ei” anyway.
It still has exceptions but it catches a lot. And i wish people followed it because I die inside every time someone spells “Wiener” as “Weiner”. The city is called Wien ffs.
re-saved clearly
Received is the except after C rule. Foreign uses the same ay sound as neighbor.
Keith is a better one, but it’s a proper noun so a lot of rules for spelling are ignored.
I’m sorry… foreign and neighbor do not use the same sound
They do but not where its_kim thinks:
fȯr-ən
nā-bər
The “ei” in “foreign” is a schwa ( /ə/ ) and so is the “o” in neighbor.
Sources (American English): https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/foreign, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/neighbor
It does when you pronounce it correctly.
Firstly, there is, effectively, no ‘correct’ way to pronounce any damn thing. Languages belong to those who use them. RP English is no more correct than Delhi English, or Alabama English for that matter.
Secondly, I have English speaking friends from just about every US state, and so many countries, and I have never once heard one pronounce foreign as “fore-ayn.” I’d love to know what dialect you speak.
No…
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/neighbor
nā-bər
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/foreign
fȯr-ən
You’re probably speaking some fringe accent.
Nope.
Foreign does not use the same sound as neighbor.
nAYbor
forEN
It does sound like forayn to me.
The most common pronounciations are “for-in” and “for-un”.
Source: English linguistics student who can read phonetic notation
It absolutely doesn’t have a hard E vowel sound. Except when my deep south relatives say it.
Because it’s not a “hard” E… it’s a mid-central vowel in “foreign” (schwa): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid_central_vowel (like when going “uh”)
Proof in an American dictionary: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/foreign
While “ei” in “Neighbor” is NOT a schwa, it’s an “ay”: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/neighbor
Yes, you are correct that it does not have a hard E sound
The actual rule is “memorise every word individually over a lifetime because there are no rules”
Just memorize the exceptions. It’s better to memorize rules than words.
Not if the rules don’t fucking work lol.
You must pronounce Foreign in a strange way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_before_E_except_after_C
… and you’ll always be wrong no matter what you say!
That’s not very scientific…
Edit: Downvote why? ‘Science’ clearly doesn’t follow the rule.
Good point, need to add that it’s also only for diphthongs. Science doesn’t apply because the i and e are in different syllables.
Honestly I wish we would just stop teaching stupid ‘rules’ like this. English is easier to just remember than to try to suss out some sort of rule set by which you can magically spell a word you just heard or magically pronounce a word you have only read. I hated being told to sound shit out when I was a kid.
It’s like “‘c’s make a ‘k’ or ‘s’ noise, sound it out”: Pacific Ocean
Fucking really?
And on weekends and holidays and all throughout may. You’ll always be wrong no matter what you say!
The phrase I learned was “except after ‘c’ but only if the sound is ‘ee’”. Mostly also works.
As a scientist, I’m getting a seizure from people in society pretending like this is a useful rule.
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