The abolition of the state isn’t a legalistic choice, but a result of the abolition of class. The abolition of class is an economic result, not a legalistic choice either.
I think you’re confusing the state with all government and structure, which isn’t what Marxists are talking about when we speak of the withering of the state.
Also I read some of your other link as well, but it went into tangents about elite friend groups and while it was interesting I felt like watching one of those 2 hour videos about speedrunning where you get a huge infodump but are not sure what to take away from it.
Not exactly. The economic foundations for the abolition of class are in the increasing socialization of production and the decay of market forces lending themselves to collective planning and cooperative functions. That’s the extreme oversimplification, but as these classes fade away so too do the mechanisms of enforcing them via the state. In China’s case, as long as they continue to combat corruption and focus on developing the productive forces, they will regularly develop further along the Socialist road, erasing the contradictions remaining from Capitalism until Communism is achieved globally.
As for the Tyranny of Structurelessness, it’s about why formalizing structures is necessary. I brought it up specifically in the context of vanguardism, the implication being that formalizing a vanguard is better than letting informal elites guide a movement without democratic structures in place.
People will always want more, Communism isn’t a vow of poverty, it readily acknowledges that production will continue to improve when Humanity has become Capital’s master, rather than its slave.
Greed is boundless for some. If anything Capitalism is the perfect example of this. I don’t see how having enough will fix it for them.
When I look at the open-source community the way altruistic projects reach sustainable success is with a beneficial dictator which is authoritarian but has correct intentions.
I don’t really see how that’s a problem for Communism. People go without megamansions all the time in Capitalism, and it isn’t just those who can afford them that want them. Satisfying a much larger quantity of needs is a good thing.
I don’t think the idea of Communism that exists in your head is the same understanding of Communism that Marxists have, if that’s the question you’re asking. Could you explain how you think someone would go about “trying to aquire more wealth than they need” in a Communist system to begin with, and why it would be an issue?
I’m trying to understand where the differences are in our understanding so I can better get across what I’m talking about, I’m not trying to insult your intelligence or anything.
Vow of Poverty can be pretty powerful in the early to mid game (levels 1-9) due to the exalted feats and bonus stats being higher value than could be purchased on magic items.
There’s something qualitatively different between the poor man’s desire for money and the rich man’s desire for money. The poor man has a functional, material desire for money that arises from his physiological needs. Through a dialectical process, money (and commodities more broadly) has gone from an intermediate that is used to satisfy needs, use value, into an end in and of itself. The ideological fetishization of money is what leads to the rich man desiring more money, and the fact that capital exists as a means to do so is what allows the lifestyle of endless greed to even exist. Acquiring capital and living in service of that capital, with the goal of making it multiply further, is what drives the capitalists.
Therefore, what is needed to abolish both of their enslavements is to kill both their masters, who is one and the same, and is called capital.
The abolition of the state isn’t a legalistic choice, but a result of the abolition of class. The abolition of class is an economic result, not a legalistic choice either.
I think you’re confusing the state with all government and structure, which isn’t what Marxists are talking about when we speak of the withering of the state.
So if everyone gets rich we have Communism?
Also I read some of your other link as well, but it went into tangents about elite friend groups and while it was interesting I felt like watching one of those 2 hour videos about speedrunning where you get a huge infodump but are not sure what to take away from it.
More developed and socialized productive forces = less scarcity = less need to use the state to enforce some kind of order = classes wither away
Love the difference in style between our answers, lmao. I like yours more!
STEM nerds vs humanities nerds
🤗 (which one of us would be which, though? Lol)
Not exactly. The economic foundations for the abolition of class are in the increasing socialization of production and the decay of market forces lending themselves to collective planning and cooperative functions. That’s the extreme oversimplification, but as these classes fade away so too do the mechanisms of enforcing them via the state. In China’s case, as long as they continue to combat corruption and focus on developing the productive forces, they will regularly develop further along the Socialist road, erasing the contradictions remaining from Capitalism until Communism is achieved globally.
As for the Tyranny of Structurelessness, it’s about why formalizing structures is necessary. I brought it up specifically in the context of vanguardism, the implication being that formalizing a vanguard is better than letting informal elites guide a movement without democratic structures in place.
Okay but how does it solve this im14andthisisdeep Facebook meme?
People will always want more, Communism isn’t a vow of poverty, it readily acknowledges that production will continue to improve when Humanity has become Capital’s master, rather than its slave.
Greed is boundless for some. If anything Capitalism is the perfect example of this. I don’t see how having enough will fix it for them.
When I look at the open-source community the way altruistic projects reach sustainable success is with a beneficial dictator which is authoritarian but has correct intentions.
I don’t really see how that’s a problem for Communism. People go without megamansions all the time in Capitalism, and it isn’t just those who can afford them that want them. Satisfying a much larger quantity of needs is a good thing.
Sure but how can Communism prevent someone from trying to acquire more wealth than they need?
I don’t think the idea of Communism that exists in your head is the same understanding of Communism that Marxists have, if that’s the question you’re asking. Could you explain how you think someone would go about “trying to aquire more wealth than they need” in a Communist system to begin with, and why it would be an issue?
I’m trying to understand where the differences are in our understanding so I can better get across what I’m talking about, I’m not trying to insult your intelligence or anything.
Vow of Poverty can be pretty powerful in the early to mid game (levels 1-9) due to the exalted feats and bonus stats being higher value than could be purchased on magic items.
Lmao 😂
There’s something qualitatively different between the poor man’s desire for money and the rich man’s desire for money. The poor man has a functional, material desire for money that arises from his physiological needs. Through a dialectical process, money (and commodities more broadly) has gone from an intermediate that is used to satisfy needs, use value, into an end in and of itself. The ideological fetishization of money is what leads to the rich man desiring more money, and the fact that capital exists as a means to do so is what allows the lifestyle of endless greed to even exist. Acquiring capital and living in service of that capital, with the goal of making it multiply further, is what drives the capitalists.
Therefore, what is needed to abolish both of their enslavements is to kill both their masters, who is one and the same, and is called capital.