how?
It won’t get successful. So, no worries there. And this is a good thing.
Planned obsolescence. Use Lemmy as though one day you aren’t going to anymore and have a replacement lined up. Reddit was the sole source for so long that people got used to it and put up with their enshittification because it was a sole source product. Then Lemmy was made to replace it for people who didn’t want to put up with enshittification, but it will happen here too eventually. So start planning your next move or build it’s replacement now and keep it on standby for when the replacement needs to happen.
As Free Software movement clearly demonstrates, there is only one reliable and reproducible method of preventing enshittification: ability to fork; ability to do things on your own, however you want, without anyone’s approval. However, Fediverse doesn’t grant its users this ability. One can not simply fork an instance and/or a community with all of its data. Even if your instance admins are pretty cool (admins of my instance are pretty cool, just saying!), you still have to rely on their goodwill all the time. And setting up a personal instance doesn’t seem feasible enough to widespread selfhosting…
Since it is federated and open source, just create a new instance.
With hookers and blackjack
In fact, forget the new instance
As long as it’s not shitty 6:5 blackjack. Bring me that good 3:2 shit.
But you can only split once and no doubling after split.
I can get behind both of these 🤠
If there’s no blow im out
Yeah, run your instance, don’t let shitheads on it, and block shitty instances.
that’s a great idea
Prevent corporations from ever gaining foothold here. Even slightest presence should be considered to be similar as to some invasive and rapidly spreading meatmoss and equally disgusting too.
too late.
that is external thing, cant expect to have any control over it in the first place. I think its more like leech than infection point at this point anyway. But if we ever start to just accept it and go “it is what it is” with this too, then that is the first step to things going bad.
Do you mean enshittification as a general term meaning that the overall quality will slip? Because the specific meaning by Cory Doctorow is about centralized commercial platforms. The fediverse isn’t one
I suspect OP hasn’t put enough thought into it to see why we’re confused. I can see somone who really sat down and thought about the intrusion of centralization in Lemmy as a future scenario but I don’t see how and I don’t think OP does either.
Edit: ok- lemmy could be centralized if bad actors flood garbage content everywhere. Their own instances too numerous to count drown out small and less known ones and their content floods any instance too small to fight back. That would force users into a whitelisted experience that would centralize.
The decentralized nature of it already prevents it being enshittified. If one instance turns to shit, others will be made to take its place.
On the other hand, the decentralized nature completely prevents the blocking of scrapers, spam, etc.
It does not prevent either of those things. It just makes it harder to eliminate universally since every instance is ran differently and may or may not have been set up properly with good tools that help stop those things.
If you want to scrape, you just create your own instance
Doesn’t matter how others are configured - at least for scraping
That’s not really scraping, and you can block other instances from caching your instance’s posts.
Tell me how to prevent scraping in a federated setting. I’ll wait.
maybe the devs adding self hosted verification to prevent scraping i dont know
Once one instance is federated any user (or the instance itself) an scrape everything.
It kinda works like ublock origin where a block list makes the block coverage MUCH faster. Its already happening in some parts of the fediverse. As long as its disclosed, its a very reliable tool.
How do you block something that is scraping the content to train LLMs?
Sort answer you cant (federation). Long answer, you can but with a lot of effort.
You can however fuck with LLMs VERY easily. Poisoning it is relatively easy.
oh great
Just like everything else. Nothing stays unshitty forever.
Enshittification is not the worry. However we’re extremely vulnerable to spam and dead internet.
Enshittification happens when the quality of the service becomes second class to some other goal like making money, building digital surveillance or a psyops platform. As long as Lemmy stays open source, that will not happen, since every move towards anything like that would be immediately obvious.
The problem has already been fixed. What needs to be done is keeping it fixed.
One answer is IPO. Reddit took a nosedive so hard that it made the Titanic look like a fantasy.
My main take is; no down votes without a comment is my take. If you don’t like my opinion, tell me why. This will mess up bots because it llm generated answers are becoming easier to discern.
Enshittification is a result of commercialisation.
The Forumverse cannot be commercialised. If an instance starts showing advertisements, its users will migrate to ones that don’t.
I don’t think this network can enshittify.
A complex example of this is Threads™️
It’s the largest Mastodon interfacing instance (much larger than mastodon.social) otoh Threads is blocked by most instances and actual federated interaction aren’t remotely common.
Don’t become a publically tradable company for starters.
self-hosting, smaller more thematically-focused instances, and aggressively defederating any instance that hosts ads or propaganda
Very simply, we jump ship from any server that starts down that dark path. Keep it impossible for any single company to exercise any meaningful control over the fediverse.
The whole point of Lemmy is that you don’t have to worry about it. Just make new instances. The only real issue is people holding on to their instances too long even though they’ve shown to be a problem. Which I’m not going to be throwing stones on cuz I mean I’m still .world user.
Can you elaborate? I can see two meanings for the situation you’re describing.
I mean just like everyone else said. If things get bad you can always leave and join or create a different instance.
Thanks, the other interpretation that I thought was possible was that the admins hang on for too long. No, it doesn’t make sense lol. That’s why I asked 😅
people holding on to their instances too long even though they’ve shown to be a problem.
Where does this dicussion happen? Where can I read which instances are going bad (in whatever way)?
