I mean to be fair… groups that consider themselves far left also exterminate groups.
The trick is to not go too far. You wanna end up at Scandinavian liberal socialism, but not overshoot it to let’s create a famine for kicks and kill all people wearing glasses.
I mean to be fair… groups that consider themselves far left also exterminate groups
[Citation needed]
The trick is to not go too far
Yeah, you wouldn’t want society to become TOO egalitarian and fair! 🙄
You wanna end up at Scandinavian liberal socialism
Speaking as an actual Scandinavian leftie: nope. Not good enough.
Social Democratic Liberalism (which is what it actually is. Socialism is a very different thing) is still capitalist and thus exploitative at its core.
It’s better than most, but it’s far from the utopian ideal that people from the American Left tend to think it is.
but not overshoot it to let’s create a famine for kicks and kill all people wearing glasses
You’re thinking along the wrong axis there. There’s a HUGE difference between ultra authoritarian leftism like that of the USSR and Pol Pot’s Cambodia, and libertarian (original meaning, not bastardized American definition) leftism.
I’d argue that there is no such thing as authoritarian left, that the political compass makes more sense as a triangle, or perhaps that an authoritarian left would just be some unachievable meritocracy. All those Commie Bastards were just fucking Red Fascists.
All those Commie Bastards were just fucking Red Fascists
Yeah, fucking red fascists and their completely free healthcare and education, guaranteed housing, guaranteed employment and guarantee of retirement pensions at 60 years old (55 for women). Fucking red fascists supporting anticolonial movements all over Latin America, Africa and Asia, allowing Vietnam to decide a future for itself instead of being forced into submission by American bombing. Fucking red fascists saving Europe from Nazism and saving tens of millions of lives from extermination and genocide. Fucking red fascists with their self-sufficient economic system that doesn’t rely on the exploitation of the global south. Fucking red fascists respecting the cultural diversity of the peoples (look up the evolution of number of speakers of Occitan Language since 1900 to see what’s real cultural erasure happening in real time)
Yeah, communism may have provided all the astonishing advances in human rights to hundreds of millions of people, saved hundreds of millions of lives from poverty and serfdom, and introduced doubling and tripling of life expectancy where it arrived despite having to contend against the western capitalist empire. But did you know they had prisons during the WW2 times when 25 million soviets were murdered by Nazis?
You didn’t make a point. All you did was provide a list of good things and then point at it. I could make a list of all the good things accomplished by the United States or the UK, but that doesn’t suddenly invalidate the bad.
I could make you a list of bad actions committed by the governments you view favorably. Then you would simply either engage in “whataboutism” and then complain about how another nation has done bad things. Or you would simply ignore those bad actions and provide a list of more good things.
At best it’s an incredibly simplistic and inaccurate way to view the world, at worst it’s intellectually dishonest.
This take is too anarchy-pilled. I don’t love the idea of a vanguard party but it’s hard to honestly argue something of the sort isn’t necessary to push things along until broad cultural norms shift far enough Left to be self-sustaining.
Honestly, if the total number of Tankies claiming to be Progressives exceeds the number of Progressives then which one really owns the word? Similar issue with the word Socialist being poisoned.
You wanna end up at Scandinavian liberal socialism
Finland keeps putting hundreds of thousands into poverty thanks to its “liberal socialism” constantly pushing austerity policy as the rest of Europe. And even when things were better in Finland, that’s because the entirety of the western world is supported on the exploitation of Africa, South America and Asia.
I don’t wanna end up at Scandinavian liberal socialism because it’s currently electing fascists into government, and because it perpetuates the exploitation of the global south.
I mentioned nothing about not liking Finland, I just don’t like their governance system because it’s leading to fascism. You can stop your weird adhominem and address my points
So anything thats acturally left wing is bad? Because left wing means genuene real socialism, as in not capitalism socialism. As in the type of socialism that doesn’t require oppressing the global south (which shouldn’t even be a question).
Sure, if you put stock in classifying yourself. Eventually people get overly consumed arguing ideologies and the right way to be that the individual topic of debate is lost, and the conversation turns into a popularity contest. It’s arguably the core issue the US is dealing with at the moment.
I mean to be fair… groups that consider themselves far left also exterminate groups.
The trick is to not go too far. You wanna end up at Scandinavian liberal socialism, but not overshoot it to let’s create a famine for kicks and kill all people wearing glasses.
[Citation needed]
Yeah, you wouldn’t want society to become TOO egalitarian and fair! 🙄
Speaking as an actual Scandinavian leftie: nope. Not good enough.
Social Democratic Liberalism (which is what it actually is. Socialism is a very different thing) is still capitalist and thus exploitative at its core.
It’s better than most, but it’s far from the utopian ideal that people from the American Left tend to think it is.
You’re thinking along the wrong axis there. There’s a HUGE difference between ultra authoritarian leftism like that of the USSR and Pol Pot’s Cambodia, and libertarian (original meaning, not bastardized American definition) leftism.
I’d argue that there is no such thing as authoritarian left, that the political compass makes more sense as a triangle, or perhaps that an authoritarian left would just be some unachievable meritocracy. All those Commie Bastards were just fucking Red Fascists.
Yeah, fucking red fascists and their completely free healthcare and education, guaranteed housing, guaranteed employment and guarantee of retirement pensions at 60 years old (55 for women). Fucking red fascists supporting anticolonial movements all over Latin America, Africa and Asia, allowing Vietnam to decide a future for itself instead of being forced into submission by American bombing. Fucking red fascists saving Europe from Nazism and saving tens of millions of lives from extermination and genocide. Fucking red fascists with their self-sufficient economic system that doesn’t rely on the exploitation of the global south. Fucking red fascists respecting the cultural diversity of the peoples (look up the evolution of number of speakers of Occitan Language since 1900 to see what’s real cultural erasure happening in real time)
POV Lemmy user learns that people can do both bad and good things at the same time
Yeah, communism may have provided all the astonishing advances in human rights to hundreds of millions of people, saved hundreds of millions of lives from poverty and serfdom, and introduced doubling and tripling of life expectancy where it arrived despite having to contend against the western capitalist empire. But did you know they had prisons during the WW2 times when 25 million soviets were murdered by Nazis?
POV Lemmy user doesn’t learn anything
Close your ears if you want, I made my point and you’re just shouting “lalala I didnt listen”.
You didn’t make a point. All you did was provide a list of good things and then point at it. I could make a list of all the good things accomplished by the United States or the UK, but that doesn’t suddenly invalidate the bad.
I could make you a list of bad actions committed by the governments you view favorably. Then you would simply either engage in “whataboutism” and then complain about how another nation has done bad things. Or you would simply ignore those bad actions and provide a list of more good things.
At best it’s an incredibly simplistic and inaccurate way to view the world, at worst it’s intellectually dishonest.
This take is too anarchy-pilled. I don’t love the idea of a vanguard party but it’s hard to honestly argue something of the sort isn’t necessary to push things along until broad cultural norms shift far enough Left to be self-sustaining.
Is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that statement.
Honestly, if the total number of Tankies claiming to be Progressives exceeds the number of Progressives then which one really owns the word? Similar issue with the word Socialist being poisoned.
Finland keeps putting hundreds of thousands into poverty thanks to its “liberal socialism” constantly pushing austerity policy as the rest of Europe. And even when things were better in Finland, that’s because the entirety of the western world is supported on the exploitation of Africa, South America and Asia.
I don’t wanna end up at Scandinavian liberal socialism because it’s currently electing fascists into government, and because it perpetuates the exploitation of the global south.
Oh wow I’m shocked that this guy, of all people, doesn’t like Finland. CRAZY.
I mentioned nothing about not liking Finland, I just don’t like their governance system because it’s leading to fascism. You can stop your weird adhominem and address my points
So anything thats acturally left wing is bad? Because left wing means genuene real socialism, as in not capitalism socialism. As in the type of socialism that doesn’t require oppressing the global south (which shouldn’t even be a question).
LIBERALISM = REACTIONARY
SOCIALISM = REVOLUTIONARY
Or better yet, it’s just fine having a plethora of different views on different individual topics and not subscribing to any particular ideology.
Everything is an ideology my guy. Even apathy/indifference
Sure, if you put stock in classifying yourself. Eventually people get overly consumed arguing ideologies and the right way to be that the individual topic of debate is lost, and the conversation turns into a popularity contest. It’s arguably the core issue the US is dealing with at the moment.
So your ideology is just “do-nothing-ism” and “I-just-wanna-grill-ism”. That just means conservatism, i.e. “let things remain as they are”.