I get where you’re coming from… but when the alternative is mask-off clerical fascism, it ain’t a hard fuckin’ choice.
Voting democrat is just plain harm reduction at this point, as laughable as that feels to say given present circumstances… But this shit show is what we’re stuck with unless we can somehow convince the feckless bastards to implement a better system than first-past-the-post, so other parties actually stand a chance.
It won’t happen, but neither will convincing over half of the population to vote third-party; and abstaining, while principled, only yields more voting power to Y’all Qaeda.
Firstly, I’m not even American. It’s not that I don’t understand what Biden supporters are saying, but Biden and Neo-liberal ideas are harmful to me personally and also to millions of people. My personal example is disability. I rely on disability assistance just to eat. Neo-liberal politicians let that rot and slowly take it away. Sure, Trump will take it away faster, but voting for people who are able to shrug off my very existence is not something I’m willing to do. My opinion of it is that people who are crying out “blue no matter who” are privileged enough to not already be suffering much and are able to continue to stomach the status quo, but I am no longer able to do that…
All of this is, of course, notwithstanding the ongoing genocide Biden is propping up.
Apologies for the America-centric response, I know these ideas aren’t limited to the states, it’s just what I’m most familiar with.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m no fan of neo-liberals and I think they get a lot of justified flak for not doing enough, or what’s right, and I absolutely understand not “voting for people who are able to shrug off my very existence”. If I were in your shoes, I’d be in the “burn it all down” camp too.
In 2016, I wrote in Bernie Sanders out of principle, because he felt like the only candidate who genuinely cared about what was best for regular folks. I also thought the rhetoric around Trump was overstated, particularly, I thought the whole Antifa crowd was super cringe. I grew up in a conservative environment and none of the people I knew were actually fascists after all… Well, 8 years later… I have the hindsight to know that I was wrong. Fascism is alive and well, and it’s thriving in my backyard.
I don’t want to vote for Biden, his administration’s handling of Israel and it’s genocide is an affront to humanity and one more thing to add to the list of shit that makes me ashamed of this country; it’s just that, in my eyes, the only other viable option is so much worse…
I wish I had the answers, any policies that could bring meaningful change to a two-party system are in the hands of people who have everything to gain from keeping things the same. I’d like to think that enough overt acts of civil disobedience could change things, but I don’t think it’s bad enough for most people to gather the numbers necessary to bring it about. We’ve been given just enough luxury to keep us placid, but not enough to allow us the time, money, or energy to air our grievances. It’s a sorry state of affairs.
Anyway…
TL;DR, I respectfully dissent, but your experience is valid and I don’t blame ya, hopefully things start looking up in our lifetime :P
I appreciate your point of view here for sure, even if we disagree.
I do understand that Biden is the “better option” in this circumstance. And I’m not even American so I couldn’t vote for him anyway lol. But if I was American I still would struggle to bring myself to bring myself to actually vote for him as it feels like giving my consent to this broken system that is bringing suffering and death to millions. The Trump or Biden decision is not democracy, it’s the choice between two awful political ideologies which both perpetuate pain for everyone. To vote is to validate that system, to refuse to participate is the only way to not consent to the system which brings continued suffering for the whole planet.
Of course, if I had the means and ability, I would be out organizing and helping to build something different. In my opinion, that is the only way forward. Though, honestly, that ideal is sort of out of desperation since it feels to me like there’s nothing to save from liberal representative politics, we’d have to build a direct democracy or something progressive that protects the vulnerable. Something that I hope exists and we just can’t think of it the same way that we couldn’t do better than the divine right of kings in the 1600s.
But I find myself rambling 🤣 Thanks for the discussion. I also hope things get better in our lifetime!
You’re 100% correct there, unfortunately. It’s become the choice between a firing squad, or death by a thousand cuts.
I’m one of those people “privileged enough to not already be suffering”, as you put it; unfortunately I’m also terribly empathetic. Four years of Trump did a lot of damage to the social fabric here; emboldening the worst our society has to offer, appointing three conservative SC justices to overturn Roe, tax breaks for the owning class, and so forth. The country is becoming increasingly hostile to women, queer folks, and other minorities… Hell the MAGA crowd has even convinced a good chunk of the working class to hurt itself in it’s confusion.
I suppose I see any means of staving that progression off, even if I’m repulsed by the choice, as a net neutral. Perhaps I’m naive, maybe another Trump term is exactly what we need for people to wake the fuck up and take it to the streets; but I have a feeling it’s going to be a much more violent struggle fighting against bloodthirsty fascists over milquetoast liberals.
I’m rambling too now lol. Sorry for dragging the conversation out, I think I just enjoy talking about this stuff in a non-combative environment for once 😅
I’m not American either lmao. Just assumed since you’re taking all 3 inches from Biden that’d you’d be American. Didn’t realize the propaganda machine was outsourced yet.
I do it for the low, low price of not being sent to a concentration camp with my family under a fascist regime.
Ah yes, voting for the kids in camps guy will stop the concentration camps 😂
I get where you’re coming from… but when the alternative is mask-off clerical fascism, it ain’t a hard fuckin’ choice.
Voting democrat is just plain harm reduction at this point, as laughable as that feels to say given present circumstances… But this shit show is what we’re stuck with unless we can somehow convince the feckless bastards to implement a better system than first-past-the-post, so other parties actually stand a chance.
It won’t happen, but neither will convincing over half of the population to vote third-party; and abstaining, while principled, only yields more voting power to Y’all Qaeda.
Firstly, I’m not even American. It’s not that I don’t understand what Biden supporters are saying, but Biden and Neo-liberal ideas are harmful to me personally and also to millions of people. My personal example is disability. I rely on disability assistance just to eat. Neo-liberal politicians let that rot and slowly take it away. Sure, Trump will take it away faster, but voting for people who are able to shrug off my very existence is not something I’m willing to do. My opinion of it is that people who are crying out “blue no matter who” are privileged enough to not already be suffering much and are able to continue to stomach the status quo, but I am no longer able to do that…
All of this is, of course, notwithstanding the ongoing genocide Biden is propping up.
I appreciate your thoughtful reply.
Apologies for the America-centric response, I know these ideas aren’t limited to the states, it’s just what I’m most familiar with.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m no fan of neo-liberals and I think they get a lot of justified flak for not doing enough, or what’s right, and I absolutely understand not “voting for people who are able to shrug off my very existence”. If I were in your shoes, I’d be in the “burn it all down” camp too.
In 2016, I wrote in Bernie Sanders out of principle, because he felt like the only candidate who genuinely cared about what was best for regular folks. I also thought the rhetoric around Trump was overstated, particularly, I thought the whole Antifa crowd was super cringe. I grew up in a conservative environment and none of the people I knew were actually fascists after all… Well, 8 years later… I have the hindsight to know that I was wrong. Fascism is alive and well, and it’s thriving in my backyard.
I don’t want to vote for Biden, his administration’s handling of Israel and it’s genocide is an affront to humanity and one more thing to add to the list of shit that makes me ashamed of this country; it’s just that, in my eyes, the only other viable option is so much worse…
I wish I had the answers, any policies that could bring meaningful change to a two-party system are in the hands of people who have everything to gain from keeping things the same. I’d like to think that enough overt acts of civil disobedience could change things, but I don’t think it’s bad enough for most people to gather the numbers necessary to bring it about. We’ve been given just enough luxury to keep us placid, but not enough to allow us the time, money, or energy to air our grievances. It’s a sorry state of affairs.
Anyway…
TL;DR, I respectfully dissent, but your experience is valid and I don’t blame ya, hopefully things start looking up in our lifetime :P
Edit: I
misseda wordI appreciate your point of view here for sure, even if we disagree.
I do understand that Biden is the “better option” in this circumstance. And I’m not even American so I couldn’t vote for him anyway lol. But if I was American I still would struggle to bring myself to bring myself to actually vote for him as it feels like giving my consent to this broken system that is bringing suffering and death to millions. The Trump or Biden decision is not democracy, it’s the choice between two awful political ideologies which both perpetuate pain for everyone. To vote is to validate that system, to refuse to participate is the only way to not consent to the system which brings continued suffering for the whole planet.
Of course, if I had the means and ability, I would be out organizing and helping to build something different. In my opinion, that is the only way forward. Though, honestly, that ideal is sort of out of desperation since it feels to me like there’s nothing to save from liberal representative politics, we’d have to build a direct democracy or something progressive that protects the vulnerable. Something that I hope exists and we just can’t think of it the same way that we couldn’t do better than the divine right of kings in the 1600s.
But I find myself rambling 🤣 Thanks for the discussion. I also hope things get better in our lifetime!
You’re 100% correct there, unfortunately. It’s become the choice between a firing squad, or death by a thousand cuts.
I’m one of those people “privileged enough to not already be suffering”, as you put it; unfortunately I’m also terribly empathetic. Four years of Trump did a lot of damage to the social fabric here; emboldening the worst our society has to offer, appointing three conservative SC justices to overturn Roe, tax breaks for the owning class, and so forth. The country is becoming increasingly hostile to women, queer folks, and other minorities… Hell the MAGA crowd has even convinced a good chunk of the working class to hurt itself in it’s confusion.
I suppose I see any means of staving that progression off, even if I’m repulsed by the choice, as a net neutral. Perhaps I’m naive, maybe another Trump term is exactly what we need for people to wake the fuck up and take it to the streets; but I have a feeling it’s going to be a much more violent struggle fighting against bloodthirsty fascists over milquetoast liberals.
I’m rambling too now lol. Sorry for dragging the conversation out, I think I just enjoy talking about this stuff in a non-combative environment for once 😅
Wrong. Leftism is a disease spread by leftist plague rats.
Cute bait, little guy. Keep it up :)
People like you disgust me.
Damn, not very civilized democrat of you tbh
Are you using “Democrat” as a label?
I’m not American; your political labels don’t apply, and you still disgust me.
I’m not American either lmao. Just assumed since you’re taking all 3 inches from Biden that’d you’d be American. Didn’t realize the propaganda machine was outsourced yet.
Doesn’t matter if you’re American or not… .you used the terms as if you were. No amount of excuses will change your stupidity.
🤣