This kind of behavior mystifies me. I get that it can be frustrating to deal with lazy folks, but especially with how shit google/ddg are nowadays, when people are looking for help and are met with this kind of treatment it’s pretty discouraging! I’ve been an Arch user for about a decade, and sometimes I run into problems that should be googleable but aren’t.
It’s especially concerning, considering how tech illiterate the next generation is. They’re very used to walled gardens, and if they can barely manage a MacBook, they’re going to really struggle starting with things like the command line.
Lighting a candle leaves you with two lit candles. There’s no reason to gatekeep knowledge.
If 10% of newb questions were just answered plainly in forums then google would index those and these easy solutions would be actually google-able. Nerds gatekeeping basic info by forcing people deep into man pages to find the needle in the haystack argument that is used for 99% of commands surrounded by a bajillion arguments that are basically dev-tools used for bash scripts make adopting to a CLI mega frustrating.
Most forum advice is about obscure driver issues for some random piece of hardware or “help! update broke my shit” type of posts.
True but people need to know to look to the documentation, it’s not something we’re born with. People learn to ride a bike, to drive a car, use their TV, etc without reading much documentation. We should educate people on how to figure things out rather than shame them for not knowing as much as you.
Don’t assume everyone can learn as easily as you can or has a background that would facilitate their grasping of the topic. Here you are casually saying “just read the man page” and referencing gcc, it would take my mom a week of education to get to the point where she’d be able to understand what gcc even is and why it has a man page.
And if you don’t want to help them, ignore the noobs, don’t push them away.
to be fair, the documentation that came with products used to be alot better, Ive had plenty of “manuals” come with products now that just say how to start the device and follow a setup wizard.
I mean, if you are already know you’re using GCC, knowing to browse the manpage for info is easier.
The problem with manpages is, in my experience, they are vastly ill-suited for the “modern” / desktop-like workflow of the distros. They’re point is they’re not the tool for that, they are reference manuals focused on the tool, not training pamphlets focused on the use. Like, what is the manpage for “my desktop icons disappeared”? Even assuming there’s one. Or for “my desktop is in Italian but my start menu is in Swahili”? Or for “after video driver update and reboot my screen is monochrome”? Heck, for most of those even figuring out a proper info page (the “competitor” of man page) would be next to impossible.
So, there is of course merit to reading the documentation. But for that someone has to first isolate the workflow and write that documentation. I’m not interested in the man page for “steel” or for “lacrimals”; I need the usage pamphlet for “Slicing onions with a kitchen knife”.
There is a lot of merit in reading man pages - as long as you understand what they are talking about. Something most newcomers lack. I’ve read more than one man page that was so poorly written that unless you were a top developer, I was worse off than before I started.
Technical writing is an art form and very few in the FOSS world, (and even the rest of the world), are really good at it. It always pays to be mindful of just how unskilled your audience is.
This kind of behavior mystifies me. I get that it can be frustrating to deal with lazy folks, but especially with how shit google/ddg are nowadays, when people are looking for help and are met with this kind of treatment it’s pretty discouraging! I’ve been an Arch user for about a decade, and sometimes I run into problems that should be googleable but aren’t.
It’s especially concerning, considering how tech illiterate the next generation is. They’re very used to walled gardens, and if they can barely manage a MacBook, they’re going to really struggle starting with things like the command line.
Lighting a candle leaves you with two lit candles. There’s no reason to gatekeep knowledge.
If 10% of newb questions were just answered plainly in forums then google would index those and these easy solutions would be actually google-able. Nerds gatekeeping basic info by forcing people deep into man pages to find the needle in the haystack argument that is used for 99% of commands surrounded by a bajillion arguments that are basically dev-tools used for bash scripts make adopting to a CLI mega frustrating.
Most forum advice is about obscure driver issues for some random piece of hardware or “help! update broke my shit” type of posts.
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True but people need to know to look to the documentation, it’s not something we’re born with. People learn to ride a bike, to drive a car, use their TV, etc without reading much documentation. We should educate people on how to figure things out rather than shame them for not knowing as much as you.
Don’t assume everyone can learn as easily as you can or has a background that would facilitate their grasping of the topic. Here you are casually saying “just read the man page” and referencing gcc, it would take my mom a week of education to get to the point where she’d be able to understand what gcc even is and why it has a man page.
And if you don’t want to help them, ignore the noobs, don’t push them away.
to be fair, the documentation that came with products used to be alot better, Ive had plenty of “manuals” come with products now that just say how to start the device and follow a setup wizard.
I mean, if you are already know you’re using GCC, knowing to browse the manpage for info is easier.
The problem with manpages is, in my experience, they are vastly ill-suited for the “modern” / desktop-like workflow of the distros. They’re point is they’re not the tool for that, they are reference manuals focused on the tool, not training pamphlets focused on the use. Like, what is the manpage for “my desktop icons disappeared”? Even assuming there’s one. Or for “my desktop is in Italian but my start menu is in Swahili”? Or for “after video driver update and reboot my screen is monochrome”? Heck, for most of those even figuring out a proper info page (the “competitor” of man page) would be next to impossible.
So, there is of course merit to reading the documentation. But for that someone has to first isolate the workflow and write that documentation. I’m not interested in the man page for “steel” or for “lacrimals”; I need the usage pamphlet for “Slicing onions with a kitchen knife”.
There is a lot of merit in reading man pages - as long as you understand what they are talking about. Something most newcomers lack. I’ve read more than one man page that was so poorly written that unless you were a top developer, I was worse off than before I started.
Technical writing is an art form and very few in the FOSS world, (and even the rest of the world), are really good at it. It always pays to be mindful of just how unskilled your audience is.
deleted by creator