I wonder if I will find “blue MAGA” in your comment history
I wonder if I will find support for any type of direct action on behalf of Palestine there, or if it begins and ends with not voting for Biden in November
Brb. I will check a few pages, I’m not planning on going through the whole thing
Edit: Wait, what the heck man, I was wrong; you seem for-real. No “blue MAGA” and there is this kind of stuff which seems pretty real and productive on behalf of Palestinian people. Now I’m just confused about your intent.
Okay, so to take the conversation in a serious direction, then:
Lmao no. You can try to walk it back but we’ve all been here. We’re not dumb and we weren’t born yesterday.
This is, more than anything, what made me think you were a troll. You sound like a campaign commercial. Just say what you want to say, and leave the “We’re not dumb, Joe Biden” while looking straight into the camera, out of it.
Nobody is refusing to vote for Biden because he supports a country. It’s because he supports and covers for them committing a genocide.
I think the idea that Biden is happy about Israel committing genocide, and wants them to continue, is immediately obviously not true. It seems clear that he supports Israel the country (which, he shouldn’t) but not the genocide that they are currently doing. He’s still not shipping them any more weapons since mid-May, as far as I know, and he’s clearly pushing for a cease fire and humanitarian aid. Is that enough? Fuck no. He should have done all that in mid October, and he should be taking Netanyahu to the Hague. But it’s also different from choosing to hit the gas on the genocide.
I think giving him shit for it in the present to try to make him stop the support he’s still giving them (which is, it looks to me, what most of your comments on the issue are advocating for) sounds great. Up to and including threatening not to vote for him in November if he doesn’t do X, Y, and Z.
I’m not sure if I would say this to him directly as like a “commitment” – for exactly the reasons that you’re saying – but I plan to vote for him in November regardless, because of not wanting 10 Gazas all over the world with full-throated support from a second Trump administration. But I don’t actually have any issue with what it looks like you’re mostly saying, and I wouldn’t really apply this meme to you even as pertains to you saying to give Biden resistance about Gaza. I think most of what the meme is targeted at is people who are saying they will never vote for Biden, and (various made up flaws unrelated to Gaza), and Trump’s not that bad anyway, and who even cares about putting pressure on him in the present. That kind of thing seems bad. What you’re saying as far as I can tell makes perfect sense to me.
Well I’m glad you at least seem to realize that. I’m overrun with people who just shove Trump in my face and demand that I either declare my vote for Biden or be labeled a trump supporter. But an electoral protest is useless if you’re not otherwise willing to vote for the person, and you don’t let them know you exist. But, crucially, you also have to be willing to refrain from voting for them.
As to his Israel policy, it’s not as good as you think. He says stuff about Netanyahu but he is still sending ammunition for everything except the 500 and 2000 pound bombs. When Israel bombs the evacuation zones Biden, Sullivan, and Blinken are always out there right away with Israel’s denial/excuse. Even when our own intelligence agencies rate the claims as “low confidence”. Then when the claim is publicly debunked they just go quiet. They also haven’t removed the special Leahy process Israel enjoys. Several former state department staffers have said any other country would have been cut off by The Leahy law and the FSA. Finally, even with Hamas at the table, accepting a framework, Biden always blames them for the deals falling through. They’re doing it right now.
If there is no accountability for Israel then they have no reason to change what they’re doing. And I have no reason to vote for someone whose shown me they could support that kind of violence. Especially combined with some of the most extreme border policies we’ve ever had. Which makes the entire premise that this is some kind of anti fascist coalition laughable. Trump may seize power, but you can vote fascism in as well and right now Biden isn’t looking very anti fascist.
As to his Israel policy, it’s not as good as you think.
It’s fuckin terrible. I didn’t say it was good. I said I think he is unhappy that the Gaza “war” is happening at all. If you want to blame him for not taking the step from there to saying “and that’s why fuck Israel, they won’t get any more weapons and we support the ICC warrant” (ideally after climbing in a time machine so he can do it in October or November of last year), I can get behind you on that idea, too.
Especially combined with some of the most extreme border policies we’ve ever had.
What’s your take on my summary of the border situation here?
I didn’t think you thought it was good, I just think it’s worse than you think it is. His statements have been calculated to give an impression. His actions have not matched that impression.
I think your take on the border situation is wrong. It’s certainly not unblocking any time soon but an illegal and cruel EO is not the answer. This would be a great time for voter outreach and education. It’s even campaign season.
Voter outreach. The issue is obviously deadlocked right now so go back to the people. Build pressure for a proper reform bill. And when the GOP says no it goes on the pile of nice things we can’t have because of the GOP. Then whenever a red state complains about immigration it gets brought out.
The real problem is that immigration is solved by doing the things big donors absolutely do not want. Giving immigrants work authorization and a displaced person camp means they have rights suddenly and you can’t just abuse them until you call ICE the next time.
Working in good faith on the problems of the Central American countries would mean our corporations wouldn’t be able to hire mercenaries down there anymore. (Looking at Chiquita)
And we really need to figure it out because when climate change kicks off we’re going to look back at the current situation like a day at the playground.
I wonder if I will find “blue MAGA” in your comment history
I wonder if I will find support for any type of direct action on behalf of Palestine there, or if it begins and ends with not voting for Biden in November
Brb. I will check a few pages, I’m not planning on going through the whole thing
Edit: Wait, what the heck man, I was wrong; you seem for-real. No “blue MAGA” and there is this kind of stuff which seems pretty real and productive on behalf of Palestinian people. Now I’m just confused about your intent.
Okay, so to take the conversation in a serious direction, then:
This is, more than anything, what made me think you were a troll. You sound like a campaign commercial. Just say what you want to say, and leave the “We’re not dumb, Joe Biden” while looking straight into the camera, out of it.
I think the idea that Biden is happy about Israel committing genocide, and wants them to continue, is immediately obviously not true. It seems clear that he supports Israel the country (which, he shouldn’t) but not the genocide that they are currently doing. He’s still not shipping them any more weapons since mid-May, as far as I know, and he’s clearly pushing for a cease fire and humanitarian aid. Is that enough? Fuck no. He should have done all that in mid October, and he should be taking Netanyahu to the Hague. But it’s also different from choosing to hit the gas on the genocide.
I think giving him shit for it in the present to try to make him stop the support he’s still giving them (which is, it looks to me, what most of your comments on the issue are advocating for) sounds great. Up to and including threatening not to vote for him in November if he doesn’t do X, Y, and Z.
I’m not sure if I would say this to him directly as like a “commitment” – for exactly the reasons that you’re saying – but I plan to vote for him in November regardless, because of not wanting 10 Gazas all over the world with full-throated support from a second Trump administration. But I don’t actually have any issue with what it looks like you’re mostly saying, and I wouldn’t really apply this meme to you even as pertains to you saying to give Biden resistance about Gaza. I think most of what the meme is targeted at is people who are saying they will never vote for Biden, and (various made up flaws unrelated to Gaza), and Trump’s not that bad anyway, and who even cares about putting pressure on him in the present. That kind of thing seems bad. What you’re saying as far as I can tell makes perfect sense to me.
Well I’m glad you at least seem to realize that. I’m overrun with people who just shove Trump in my face and demand that I either declare my vote for Biden or be labeled a trump supporter. But an electoral protest is useless if you’re not otherwise willing to vote for the person, and you don’t let them know you exist. But, crucially, you also have to be willing to refrain from voting for them.
As to his Israel policy, it’s not as good as you think. He says stuff about Netanyahu but he is still sending ammunition for everything except the 500 and 2000 pound bombs. When Israel bombs the evacuation zones Biden, Sullivan, and Blinken are always out there right away with Israel’s denial/excuse. Even when our own intelligence agencies rate the claims as “low confidence”. Then when the claim is publicly debunked they just go quiet. They also haven’t removed the special Leahy process Israel enjoys. Several former state department staffers have said any other country would have been cut off by The Leahy law and the FSA. Finally, even with Hamas at the table, accepting a framework, Biden always blames them for the deals falling through. They’re doing it right now.
If there is no accountability for Israel then they have no reason to change what they’re doing. And I have no reason to vote for someone whose shown me they could support that kind of violence. Especially combined with some of the most extreme border policies we’ve ever had. Which makes the entire premise that this is some kind of anti fascist coalition laughable. Trump may seize power, but you can vote fascism in as well and right now Biden isn’t looking very anti fascist.
It’s fuckin terrible. I didn’t say it was good. I said I think he is unhappy that the Gaza “war” is happening at all. If you want to blame him for not taking the step from there to saying “and that’s why fuck Israel, they won’t get any more weapons and we support the ICC warrant” (ideally after climbing in a time machine so he can do it in October or November of last year), I can get behind you on that idea, too.
What’s your take on my summary of the border situation here?
I didn’t think you thought it was good, I just think it’s worse than you think it is. His statements have been calculated to give an impression. His actions have not matched that impression.
I think your take on the border situation is wrong. It’s certainly not unblocking any time soon but an illegal and cruel EO is not the answer. This would be a great time for voter outreach and education. It’s even campaign season.
What would be the answer, to you? I’m genuinely asking.
Voter outreach. The issue is obviously deadlocked right now so go back to the people. Build pressure for a proper reform bill. And when the GOP says no it goes on the pile of nice things we can’t have because of the GOP. Then whenever a red state complains about immigration it gets brought out.
The real problem is that immigration is solved by doing the things big donors absolutely do not want. Giving immigrants work authorization and a displaced person camp means they have rights suddenly and you can’t just abuse them until you call ICE the next time.
Working in good faith on the problems of the Central American countries would mean our corporations wouldn’t be able to hire mercenaries down there anymore. (Looking at Chiquita)
And we really need to figure it out because when climate change kicks off we’re going to look back at the current situation like a day at the playground.
That wasn’t quite my question - I was asking what Biden specifically in his present position should do (including “nothing” as a possible answer)
He can’t do voter outreach and education? FDR did it.
What should be in the reform bill he is doing voter outreach on behalf of?