I know it’s been beaten to death but I just finished re-watching all 9 + rogue one, and can confirm there’s no reason for anyone to go back to the sequel trilogy. TFA gets some credit as a solid popcorn flick but doesn’t change the fact it’s retreading ANH, just to have every original story beat crushed by TLJ. By the time I got to Rise of Skywalker I was totally checked out, it’s just noise and explosions with a plot that is borderline incomprehensible.
Same, I started rise of Skywalker, and only after the ridiculous opening sequence I was already done with the whole thing. And I love Star Wars.
I still can’t believe some writer penned “some how, palatine returned” into the script and didn’t light the whole draft on fire right there. I guess between the hamfisted bloodline reveal and the magical sith dagger guiding the way to the star destroyer parking lot - who cares at that point. Fuck it, send it.
Sure hut fans where demanding it. I thought they where going anyone can have the force. They shown it with little kid and broom. But all fans where like she has to be somebody there is no way she can’t be a nobody. Has to be blah blah blah. And the SIMPs Disney are now they are like let’s give it to them.
Oscar Isaac did an interview recently where he revealed that line was added in reshoots. So that line was written in an attempt to fix whatever catastrophic wreck the script was in before then.
As bad as it is, that line and “they fly now” are Lucas level shit dialogue and the only two memorable lines from the trilogy. Compare that to the atrocious dialogue of the prequels that have become such beloved memes you don’t even have to add the words.
That palps line represents so much more than the dialog quality to me though. It’s all about the context, TRoS built up nothing around this and suddenly jumps sideways into a plot that neccessated invalidating a significant moment of the original trilogy. It’s jarring as a viewer and there’s no explaination for why it’s happening. THEN the film has the audacity to imply through dialog, actually the audience should not worry about the details - this is what we’re doing. Almost feels insulting in some ways.
I agree. It’s just a snippet of Lucas level dialogue in a trilogy that otherwise isn’t Lucas grade throughout. SW fans may have shat on the Prequels when they came out but have more or less forgiven and embraced them for what they were because the hardcore fans know George is a great visionary, terrible execution. The actors did the best they could and there’s a charm to what the director wanted to convey but the clunkiness of the words. The shift from Hayden and Ahmed hate to fan love shows that realization. SW now operates in two realities. The realistic grimdark of Andor, or the classic good vs evil camp of Lucas. The sequels delivered neither.
I still can’t make it through rewatching the prequels, which premiered my first year of college.
I think nostalgia will probably polish the sequel turds just like it has done with the prequels.
I just want the in fucked with OG prints in 4K, and I’ll rewatch Andor and Rogue One, and even fucking Skeleton Crew one more time.
Disney pitch room:
“Okay, hear me out. What if: … a bigger Death Star!”
“Excellent! What will we call it?”
“Hmm… how about Star Killer!”
“GENIUS.”
TLJ is what I think gave the sequel trilogy… hope.
TFA is very much a nostalgia grab re-tread of ANH. Which is the point. Evil has come back and something something it rhymes.
TLJ is all about breaking the cycle. The hero? She isn’t a chosen one. She is a random unhoused garbage goblin. The reluctant hero? He isn’t coming back for selfish reasons (wanting to bang Leia) and is instead realizing that he is part of something bigger than him. The confident scoundrel? He got told quite definitively that he is a childish moron who gets people killed and to do better.
And Luke? if he was really The Chosen One… why did everything repeat? The stories of our parents aren’t gonna solve things so let’s try something new. Let’s democratize force powers. Let’s ACTUALLY fight against tyranny.
And then China allegedly got pissed and Disney had JJ come back to undo everything in the first 30 minutes of ROS. And only really succeeded in making a movie that EVERYBODY hates.
That said? Rogue One and Andor were somehow snuck in there and those are very much a Star Wars made for people who grew up watching the prequels. And it is amazing for it.
TLJ wasn’t really a middle story, though. It was a downer ending. After that there was nowhere to go without a generational time skip and a completely new story that would be inappropriate for a trilogy. There was no big antagonist anymore, there was barely any protagonist left, and every dangling plot thread was ruthlessly cut short.
Contrast it with ESB and you see with that you while have a bittersweet end to the movie, you do not have an ending of the story. Lucas even left room to bring back Han who he just sort of killed.
Luke was never the Chosen One, I think you’ve misinterpreted. It was Anakin who defeated the Sith. Luke just scored an assist.
Luke was possibly a second try for the Force (which assumes some type of agency, but any of these theories do). Anakin met all the Chosen One criteria, except he turned (thanks to the Jedi Council and Palpatine’s manipulations of them all). Luke was both a redemption for Anakin, a removal of the breaker of the prophecy (Palpatine), and a hope for the future. A second Chosen One, one who might be as or more powerful than Anakin in his prime, since he has the blood and gift but not Anakin’s personal trauma that haunts and detracts him.
I think the biggest flaw of the sequels was the vagueness of why Luke couldn’t renew or reimagine the Jedi again in a better form. It’s glossed over to give a minimal backstory for Kylo, Snope is even more unclear and ended up being nothing, and why it drove Luke into isolation still isn’t really told.
I liked TFA. I didn’t like the start of TLJ. I expected a better thing that Luke just “meh” with the saber and the apathy towards everything. I wanted something deep and dramatic, tragic even. I was okay with Rey being no one special, that actually was the best part of TLJ (the end with the kid and broom). That seemed very interesting to follow.
Then it lost me fully.
Technically Anakin brought balance to the force. There used to be a bunch of Jedi and a few Sith. Because of Anakin, now there are a few Jedi and a few Sith.
Shoot, what was that comic where Yoda demonstrated his concerns about Anakin using salt and pepper? He dumped them both out, stuck his finger in the middle, and blew all the rest off the table. He lifted his finger, showing only a few grains of each left, and said “balanced, it is”
I hadn’t heard that China might have pressured Disney about the democratization of heroism, but… I could see it. I agree TLJ felt like a bit of a downer – especially coming from the abandoned Expanded Universe novels where Luke hadn’t done the best job but at least had set a direction for Jedi to come back into the galaxy. I still don’t love Rey’s encounter with the dark side.
But the disruption of every story beat, the possibility of being a hero because YOU choose to step forward, that was a great twist. The broom scene should have set the direction of the terribly named Episode 9…
Maybe I’ll slip Rogue One in and drop Episode 9. Still 9 movies, and only really regret the first one.
Luke was the son of the evil warlord who single handedly changed the fate of not just The Rebellion but also The Galaxy (and yes, I know the EU expanded on that to make it less the case). Was he the one in the prophecy? No. But from a narrative/trope perspective, he was 100% The Chosen One.
This comment really perfectly sums up how I feel … TLJ ends with SO MUCH POTENTIAL in my eyes.
Harumph.
Potential for a completely unrelated future story, not the end of the one they were trying to tell. TLJ is why RoS is as bad as it is. It sacrificed the future for a subversion level high score.
I think a third part could have been really well done from where TLJ ended … you have a goodie who has literally come from nothing and maybe doubts herself as a result, and a baddie who got that way because he came from a dynasty of important people and believes his own press.
From there a story could be woven on the themes of them both changing who they are, how they see their respective worlds … to achieve success, or forgiveness, or love.
I’m not sure pivoting to a romance movie for the finale would have been any better received.
Sorry, who is the reluctant hero and who is the scoundrel? I think the latter is Kylo, but who wants to bang Leia in TLJ??
The best part about the whole modern star wars franchise is the endless parodies mocking them.
Jedi Party, by Auralnauts, is my preferred way of watching the Prequels.
Auralnauts is canon as far as I’m concerned.
BEHOLD! THE SINGULARITY ENGINNNNNNNE! CAN YOU SEE ME NOW, FATHERRRRR?!?
Auralnauts are geniuses of satire and of god damned audio mixing, it’s genuinely sublime what they made of it all. I really love their Larry! series.
Creepio, have you seen… anybody?
It’s the strangest thing, they’re all dead. You killed them!
Master sir, what are Midichlorians?
It’s Heroin.
I will give Rise of Skywalker one thing and one thing only: Babu Frik. I know he was probably designed by committee to be cute and endearing, but man I love that little dude.
HEY-HEY!
As a fan of the Dark Empire comics, I had already accepted that Palpatine returning was a possibility. The lack of any real storyline hinting at that in the two movies leading up- I expected disappointment. And I got what I expected, though visually Exegol/life support Sheev was cool. The idea that he had an entire fleet of Death Star Destroyers fully staffed and just chilling was implausible. That they were dependent on one transmitter was ludicrous. That the attack run on them was a cavalry charge of space horses was one of the stupidest fucking thing I’ve seen on film.
What pisses me off about that movie is that they spend a fair bit of time building out that Rey has super powerful force healing. So, like, what if she healed Palpatine? What if the ending to this saga of endless galactic war was not more death, but an act of healing? Maybe Palpatine still dies, but he’s at least made aware of what he’s done or something.
Nope. Rey use two lightsaber. Rey block real good. Palpatine go dust dust.
Rogue One is the only one of these new movies that I really enjoy and re-watch. I really didn’t expect Disney to allow that ending for the rebels sent Scarif but I’m glad they did. I also kinda love how they blend it into Episode IV.
And I think Transformers 2 is one of the greatest films of all time, up there with The Godfather and Citizen Kane.
You can just say you didn’t like Rogue One you don’t need to be sarcastic about it.
Not every movie needs to be Citizen Kane and the Godfather
Rogue One was legitimately great. Probably because it broke the Star Wars mould.
Something that I think helps it stand out is that it doesn’t rely nearly as much on “marvel style” humor. There are some funny moments but they’re more character driven you know? Like when K-2 slaps Cassian to sell the idea to the Imperials that K-2 is in charge.
What a factually incorrect article.
Yeah, cause collectively they were mid asf.
Force Awakens was reheated “A New Hope” leftovers, but I guess if you had to start with something memorable for a reintroduction to the Star Wars universe, you can’t go wrong with a soft remake of the one that started it all.
I actually found The Last Jedi to be an interesting story, if not a decent movie with interesting ideas that could be capitalized on in the sequel.
Unfortunately that was not the case, and Rose of Skywalker, along with Obi-Wan and Mando season 3 torpedoed any interest I had as a relative newcomer to the Star Wars franchise. Side projects like Visions have kept my interest only because the anthology format allows for unique narratives and perspectives. It’s why I loved Tartakovsky’s Clone Wars.
I keep hearing amazing things about Andor and Maul: Shadow Lord, and I believe the hype wholeheartedly, but damn, after being inundated with Disney Star Wars year after year after year, I’m sick and tired of (modern) Star Wars.
Ok but for real Andor is only a Star Wars show because of setting. The story, dialogue, etc are all a cut above anything else. Most of the things you think of with Star Wars (light sabers, the Force, etc) are really not part of the story. I hope you’ll give it a chance because I’m not a huge fan of Star Wars (OT is good but that’s about it for me) but Andor is fantastic.
Just finished episode 8 of the second season of Andor and it is really something special.
Taking a break for a day or two to process what happened. The thinly veiled analogy strikes hard.
Star Wars doesn’t need lightsabers or the Force any more than Marvel needs Iron Man or Captain America. They’re both good, and they’re a couple of the most iconic parts of the franchise, but both Star Wars and Marvel are big universes, and they can both tell stories totally separate from those popular touchstones.
Andor is by a large distance the most fully-realized and profound Star Wars anything and they manage to do it in all directions: the action is good and in the spirit of the original Star Wars trilology, the characters are believable and not cardboard deep (unlike the original triology), the context of the store is fully realized believable societies
The story is mainly consistent and believable, with various threads that criss-cross in a natural and coherent way and are eventually brought all the way to a conclusion and no further - the latter a rarity for TV Series, which tend to end not at a natural conclusion of a story but instead past the end of the story and after “just one more” (sometimes two) seasons are forced in, which are shit. In Andor, maybe only a few things in the last few episodes of the last season felt like they’ve been forcefully wrapped up to reach a conclusion but mainly the whole thing just naturally reached an ending.
Shit, even the architecture and wardrobe design are consistent and memorable in those things which weren’t “inherited” from previous Movies and Series in the Star Wars universe - Ghorman especially is visually a fully believable and realized environment nicelly entwinned and consistent with traditional Star Wars universe elements.
Andor is, however, not the pure roller coaster of action that the original triology is.
I would recommend the Original Triology and Rogue Squadron as exciting roller coasters of action in a fully realized futuristic sci-fi environment and Andor as a good long-form story, with depth, well written, fully realized, well acted and with great production values that happens to take place in the Star Wars universe (so it also ticks the pleasant memories of those who grew up with the Triology) and does have plenty of Action, whilst being a lot more than just that.
The Force Awakens was cool, I would always defend that movie.
But 8 and 9 were incredibly bad movies and bad star wars media.
It’s treason then.
Like that isn’t happening to The Phantom Menace?
Which is by far the worst Star Wars movie of them all.
No, the final film is by far the worst.
As soon as it was evident the new movie was just the old movie, but with an even bigger no moon that could blow up 7 planets at once with red lasers instead of green, I was over it. Seeing the fucking laser arches in a space chase in the other movie just killed any desire to watch more.
The prequels were just as hated as the sequels are right now, but then gen z grew up and the nostalgia for those movies suddenly made them okay in the public awareness.
No they weren’t. There were cool bits people loved. Instant classic scenes people liked immediately. I watched Episode 7 but I remember nothing, then never watched any of the later ones. I did like Rogue One
Episode 1: Pod racing is cool.
Darth Maul’s double light saber and a cool duel with cool music.Episode 2:
Chase scene, factory scene, pretty cool.
Full scale war with the clones.
Yoda fighting! Theater blew up on this one!Episode 3:
Battle scene in the opening
Betrayal scenes: “unlimited power!”, Order 66, marching clones, killing the youngling Fighting on lava, and Anakin seething with rage!I did like Rogue One
Surprisingly, a good movie. I’d say, same quality as Mandalorian to me. Just plain good media. Not super epic, or extremely engaging. Just a good movie. But somehow is not popular enough and I remember hardcore fans not liking it either. No idea what exactly is so bad about it compared to The Last Jedi.
I only saw them once, so my memory might be foggy. I remember thinking Force Awakens was pretty okay. The Last Jedi was pretty okay. Rise of skywalker was a steaming pile of shit.
There was a build-up towards “it doesn’t matter who your parents are - anybody can be important” that got completely reversed in the last film.
They were fine to see once, but I have no interest in seeing them again, unlike the OG trilogy.
Every time I consider watching them I remember how they butchered logic and character development. Or plotlines that could be removed with no impact whatsoever.
The only thing I can say is that the dialogs are at least not as shallow as in the prequel trilogy.
I trid to re-watch those a few weeks ago and… No. I couldn’t stand the moments they opened their mouths to speak their lines, sorry to say.
The first one of the new set was ok. Slightly darker overtones.
Backing up a bit - the second trilogy had an all-star cast, yet a wooden log had more writing skill, acting ability, and charisma than the people on the screen. It was like people in a classroom being told to take turns reading out loud from the assigned book. The lack of acting and directorial skill was made up with by the abuse and overuse of CGI. Awful. I have never watched the second set since release. Lump the Boba Fett series in with this set, it was so wooden and poorly written they had to bring in the Mandalorian to rescue it.
Han Solo? Throwaway movie. Really didn’t do the character justice. Turned him into an Errol Flynn “Robin Hood”. I think everyone’s forgotten about it even existing.
The new set? Love the practical effects. Way less CGI. Awesome. But now the acting was ridiculous and over the top as were the characters. I know she gets some hate, but I think Ridley did a decent job of it with what she was given. The rest? Meh. Just written crazy with shameless bad writing, merch placement, and trite lines.
We’ll have to see about the new Mando movie.
Best Star Wars? ANH, ESB, R1, Andor. Some of the Mandalorian series. Probably some of the animated ones, but I haven’t watched them.
Eh, turned into more of a critique than I wanted, but I guess I’ll leave it.
Best Star Wars?
The Clone Wars. Hands down.
Bad Batch
The Bad Batch episodes were great. The Bad Batch show was weak IMO.
What do you think of the original trilogy?
Kinda covered that, but ANH (which wasn’t ANH on release…) gets full marks for being first even if it is kinda silly at times. ESB is great. Darker, more serious, the cast and writers hit their stride. ROTJ is pretty much of the same vein as TLJ or TROS. A rehash or retread of already done themes with fluffy happy critters perfect for toy sales. Not great, but not awful. I liked it as a way to say goodbye to characters I never thought I’d see again. Man, was I wrong.
Ok, sorry, I’m not much of a star wars fan and I didn’t recognize the abbrevations.
The Force Awakens was fine, for a near shot-for-shot remake of A New Hope.
The Last Jedi is underrated, and I would argue the worst aspects are the attempt to redo the battle of Hoth. Overall a valiant attempt to make Star Wars something other than “the Skywalker Files.”
I made it ~15 minutes into The Rise of Skywalker before I turned it off. When did Leia become a Jedi Master again? Sometime after TLJ and the start of TRoS?
The best of these movies was okay. Of course no one is watching them.
I may have my movies backwards, but I’m pretty sure space Jesus Leia is from TLJ and was one of the criticisms of that movie.
TLJ is where she pulls herself back into a ship after being thrown into space, but TRoS is where Rey refers to her “master” and the reveal is that it’s Leia. I’m…fine with the scene in TLJ, she’s Luke’s twin and in RotJ he says she’s strong in the force so instinctively rescuing herself is not a huge problem. But if she was a Jedi master in TRoS she should have at least had some indication of significant training in the two preceding films.
Flying through space while unconscious, something that’s never been shown possible by even trained conscious jedi, is fine, but not mentioning someone has training is a leap too far?
If you read Rian Johnsons reasoning for the space flight scene it depicts someone without a lot of care for the world of star wars and someone who just wants to make a scene.
Not that it’s a competition, but I was told it’s an “at at” (rhymes with hat hat), and thier justification was that they heard JJ say it that way.
Nobody, and I mean nobody with any say in the sequels understood the universe even at an elementary level. Everyone just showed up to flip the franchise up by the ankles and give a few shakes to try and dislodge its lunch money.
Listen. There are only a handful of hills I am willing to die on. And one of those hills is that the “rhymes with ‘hat hat’” pronunciation is objectively wrong. Like even Lucas could say it and it’s wrong. “AyTee-AyTee” is the pronunciation. This is because there are other vehicles in that series, most notably the AT-ST. So what do you call that? The “Aht-EssTee?”
takes swig from flask
Flying through space while unconscious, something that’s never been shown possible by even trained conscious jedi, is fine, but not mentioning someone has training is a leap too far?
Unconcious? She’s up and walking around in that scene when she gets back on the ship.
Maybe this isn’t the full scene, but it shows her getting blasted into space unconscious, eyes bolt open and she flies through space, then she’s on the ship unconscious. So like, I guess maybe technically she was conscious during the flying, but that’s still pretty weak.
heh, I’ll be honest, I thought she landed earlier and walked to the door. Less “up and walking around” and more “slumped against a door”.
It’s been a while since the movie came out, and I haven’t re-watched it, so that’s on me.
I had to look up the scene to remember what happened.
It’s amazing how it would have been a very powerful scene had they just let her character die, now it’s a point of contention in the fan base.
I understand Rian wanting to give Leia her moment, but I feel like that understated her existing role. Leia was already the commander and that had been demonstrated in the originals and the sequels. She didnt need to be a force user to be valuable, but if she was it should have been through a subtle subterfuge or in a commanding manner, not an involuntary life saving throw.
I guess I think like Rian Johnson, because his explanation (it’s like a person instinctively clawing for the surface when drowning) makes sense to me. I’ve been in a handful of situations where I felt like my life was in danger and I managed to do things I could not accomplish if I was trying to do them consciously. There’s a big difference between (say) holding your breath for a number of minutes when waves are pounding you into the sand, and reaching another person how to swim.
The issue isn’t about drawing upon some inate power/competency, it’s the degree in which it’s done.
Holding your breath for longer or lifting a heavier car than you thought possible is enhancing a known capability. Surviving in the vaccum of space and flying aren’t known abilities.
I think we see this kind of thing done much better in The Mandalorian where we see Grogu manage to utilize the force in small ways initially (and not always as intended), then building things up over time. That’s what we’d expect from someone inexperienced in the force, able to call upon some elements of it when needed, but not pulling off feats someone trained in the force can’t do.
Thats why I say Rian had little respect for the franchise. He literally says he wants to subvert expectations, but in many ways he was just breaking existing lore and/or rules of the universe. That’s not good writing in my opinion. To subvert expectations you can’t just change the rules.
Edit: Spelling/grammer
The Last Jedi is my favorite Star Wars movie. But you wouldn’t be able to tell from my Disney account because I haven’t even gotten around to watching Maul yet.
Some people think I’m not a real Star Wars fan; as though that were insulting somehow.
“There is another…”
Seriously. The Last Jedi is also my favorite Star Wars movie. It’s an elegant piece of film making.
I haven’t seen any of the sequels, but why do they keep letting JJ Abrams write/direct movies? He ruined Star Trek too.
I’ve liked a lot of Abrams’ work, but yes, he really shat on Star Wars/Trek. I find he has great ideas, and great starts for those ideas, but he just gets bogged down with all the history and storylines, ending up with an absolute slog, with lots of explosions and lens flares to distract from that. So, given all that, I’m not surprised with his disappointing results with both multi-episode stories told over decades.
I’m asking this trying not to sound like a dick, but sincerely - what Abram’s work do you like? His entire filmography looks so weak these days, and it’s even worse if we just evaluate him as a director.
I liked Super 8, but that’s all that stands out to me. Even that maybe felt more “Spielberg at home”, but it was entertaining.
I enjoyed the Alias and Fringe series, especially the overall concept. They both staggered hard for the last season or so. I didn’t realize Regarding Henry was a film of his, which I thought was excellent. I didn’t mind Felicity, but I think Alias was a better spin on the core concept.
Yes, as a director, im not overly impressed, but like I said, I liked his ideas, and the initial setup, but the wrap-up sucked. The last has a much bigger impact on movies, and wrapping up established world will only highlight his weaknesses.
I was a big fan of 2009’s Star Trek. Saw it a bunch in theaters. I’ve rewatched it a time or two recently (wife digs it) and, aside from the cast, I really don’t like it. It doesn’t feel like Star Trek (and I’m someone who will find things to defend about Discovery and loved Starfleet Academy while DS9 remains my all-time favorite series). But boyhowdy is Chris Pine great as Kirk. Zachary Quinto is also phenomenal as Spock. I could actually go either way with the castings of Uhura, Scotty, and Sulu. But Karl Urban as McCoy must be defended at all costs.
Abrams, when it comes to Star Trek and Star Wars feels like he’s making what popular culture thinks of those franchises and not what the franchises themselves are all about, if that makes sense. It’s almost a parody.
yeah, he’s trying to make money. you do that by appealing to the LCD, violence and sex and easy to digest plots full of tropes.
thoughtful sci fi is niche, it doesn’t make any money.
because people love his movies.
