Okay so Lucifer obviously upset his sky-daddy, is demoted from being an angel permanently, is cast down to rule an entire sector of the afterlife called Hell which we come to know where all damned souls go after they die.
What is the logic of God practically awarding Lucifer an entire realm for him to rule on his own and nearly contest God’s power?
That’s like imprisoning someone to home confinement when they live in a mansion.
It’s all nonsense anyway, but it makes sense in the context of God and Satan battling for control of heaven. It was a close war, and there was no end in sight, so God says, fine! You can take this region of heaven and rule it however you want, just leave us alone, and we’ll do the same.
That’s not what happened in Christian theology.
The more important question:
Why do humans continue to believe in utterly moronic fictional BS?
Modern Christian mythology is a mashup of a lot of things. A scholar would be required to really unpack a lot of it, but consider that much of what we think of as lore, motivation, and character are newer additions. Dante’s Inferno probably has more influence on our ideas about Lucifer and Hell than the Bible.
Once you start unpacking these old stories with a post-modern mindset, the logic of it quickly stops making sense.
A modern Christian might opine that Lucifer is a prisoner of Hell but not a genuine threat to the power of their Almighty God. He’s not awarded this position. He’s lost God’s grace and dwells outside of his love - the worst punishment imaginable in the mind of some Christians.
The way I understand it the whole Lucifer/Satan thing is a mistranslation.
Satan just means “challenger” and he is just an angel that has been ordered by God to troll humans.
Lucifer is an angel that got cast out.
Okay, bear with me for just a second. There’s a cartoon called “Hazbin Hotel”, which it told from the point of view of Satan (Lucifer’s) daughter. In her version of their origin story, Lucifer gave humanity free will. But because humans are, well, all over the place, this allowed for evil to exist. Which lead to the creation of hell as a place to put these evil souls.
As Lucifer’s punishment, he was sent to rule over hell, so that the only outcome he would ever see for giving humans free will was humans turning evil. Over & over again for all eternity.
Yes it’s a cartoon. But I thought it was very elegant here.
Hazbin Hotel fucking sucks and is made for edgelord teens of today.
LOL :rolleyes:
Says the person asking about satan ruling hell. Lol. Okay.
As if ANY religion makes sense. Don’t try to find one, either just accept the nonsense (they call it faith) or don’t. You are NOT supposed to question that.
I question my religion all the time.
Satan doesn’t rule hell. In fact, Satan is the one who suffers the most in hell. Hell was literally made to torture Satan and his demons. It wasn’t made for the Humans, unlike Heaven
Then he must’ve gotten a sweet sentencing deal because he vacations on earth all the time. Or does that count as work release?
Satan isn’t in hell yet. I’m not sure if hell really exists in it’s final form yet. (Heaven doesn’t right now) It is all related to eschatology.
it depends on what you consider to be Canon. personally, I think the Bible doesn’t say much about it because the Bible is a boring and poorly written.
Milton’s Paradise lost is pretty interesting. lucifer is the leader of a failed revolution to overthrow the monarchy of heaven and that’s how they all got banned
It’s Christian fanfic. There is surprisingly little about Hell in actual scripture, definitely not the “hell” we’ve come to expect from modern media. Most depictions of hell originate from Dante’s Inferno, not from the bible.
Yup. As far as I’m aware most Christians would disagree with the notion that Satan rules hell, and it’s not a doctrine in any major denomination.
most Christians would disagree with the notion that Satan rules hell,
Doubt. Most Christians have never read the Bible, and their understanding comes from pop culture.
And even on Dante’s Inferno Satan is just another prisoner, not a ruler.
Yeah—Milton’s Paradise Lost seems closer to the modern conception.
Paradise Lost is a fun read.
I believe in the scripture there’s mostly talk about the realm of the dead as well as weeping and gnashing of teeth, right?
The weeping and gnashing of teeth isn’t even explicitly hell.
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
It’s just a general separation from God. Which you could call a Hell, but it’s not explicitly stated as a product of that realm which is Hell.
The other things Jesus says and Revelation does heavily imply that it’s hell.
Thank you. It’s been a while since I read the Bible the last time.
In the book of Apocalypse/Revelation that’s 2 places, there’s the Land of the Dead, and the Lake of Fire; it tells the former will be thrown into the latter at the very end of things, after the Land of the Dead has been emptied.
Let us not forget that according to the Bible, angels do not have free will. It is pretty clear that humans are the only beings in all of existence to have such a thing. Angels are just extensions of God’s will. So Lucifer could not rebel of their own volition, that they did so was God’s will. If humanity’s free will were to mean anything, they had to be tempted and forced to choose, had to have bad guys.
In the book of Job, Satan is depicted more like a friendly prosecutor or advisor to God than an enemy. He and Yahweh are like frat bros torturing the poor schmuck.
Satan means “Accuser”, in the book of Job he is trying to convince God that humans are too wicked and corrupt to deserve all the gifts God gives us, and and that people only pretend to love God because we expect something in return.
From my understanding hes just the first prisoner, not actually the leader of hell
I think it’s just Hollywood style engaging story telling. Who cares what any books have to say about Satan. Write some dichotomy and conflict into the story, and people can’t get enough of it.
Well they need someone there; if you just exile people to hell without a plan you end up with Australia.
Too cool for God.
the bible says satan causes illness but then god causes the firstborn to die, causes plagues, and so on.
the bible says god is good but god is a judgemental ass who raped a woman and impregnated her, and who forces suffering onto people. while satan welcomes all who come to his realm, to better themselves.
satan’s the real protagonist, not god. and the bible is so self contradictory that science alone holds the answers.
I prefer some of the Gnostic interpretations of Lucifer, or Satan, where he attempts to introduce knowledge (gnosis) to Adam and Eve by way of the forbidden Fruit of Knowledge in an effort to ‘awaken’ them. Meanwhile, God the evil Demiurge does not want Adam and Eve to truly know what lies beyond Him, forcing Satan out.
God is an absentee landlord and Lucifer is a fan of man
God is the real evil! Satan doesn’t rule hell, God does. Even more contradictions!
“Spread love and love thy neighbor…NOW BURN IN HELL!!”
Logically, it would make sense for the evil entity to try to manipulate people into believing they are the good one and the good one is the bad one
Yeah, why does God have to be judgemental, mannn… It’s not like people do horrific things like enslaving (what God punished the egyptians for after literally 9 warnings) genocide, rape(a sin of Sodom and Gomorrah) cause illness or hoard money. /s
Also, Mary did literally consent and then praised God.
Luke 1:35, 38
And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.
And Mary said, “Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.
Luke 1:46-49
And Mary said, “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has looked on the humble estate of his servant. For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed; for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name.
Also
while satan welcomes all who come to his realm, to better themselves. Are you literally getting your theology from Hazbib Hotel? Satan hates you. He despises you more than any human has hated anybody. He is a resentful prick who wants to drag you down with him because his shitty coup failed. Satan doesn’t rule hell. He’s suffering there and jealous that he wants to deprive mankind of heaven.
Didn’t god create rape, genocide, disease, etc… by definition? Or he can’t do anything about that?
Also I’m not sure if a teenage girl can consent when it’s the god of the universe. Pretty wild power dynamics there.
Hmm the way Satan is portrayed in the old testament is like a prosecutor for God. The New testament mentions a few characters sort of like that. The whore of Babylon, Lucifer, the dragon, etc.
I have always been sort of open-minded about the idea of Lucifer,because the people who always seem to want you to hate him and have bad things to say about him/her, always seem to be exactly the types of people I dont like. Considering the Catholic Church for example, ruled over a slave infested hellhole of public torture and execution and brainwashing, I kind of feel like Lucifer is probably the good guy since they hate him/her so much. Idk tho. Not really that religious anymore.
There is a sort of old belief that Lucifer rules over earth and God over heaven. This is based in old folk beliefs of Christianity before it was made into a religion and stuff. One place this shows up in the Bible is when Moses dies, God and the devil are sort of arguing over who gets the soul of Moses.
The idea of hell is mostly a medieval concept to sort of sell the more institutionalized version of Christianity to the masses and emphasize the punishment part, which was necessary when the religion started to become the backbone of the power structure of medieval society. At the time when Christ lived, the Jews didn’t really believe in an afterlife. They believed in a place where souls rested, but it was dark and miserable. The greeks had hades and some other places depending on how good your soul was.
