Forget what you read online
… What was I doing, again?
tries to check history
navigates to profile page and reads it
What’s my name again!?
My hesitation with an EV other than the battery catching fire and having to burn itself out, would be driving long distance on vacation and being forced to charge my car instead of a getting a quick fill up and continuing my trip.
Depends on your thoughts on “long distance”, but with a bit of planning, you can plan some fun stops to tack on a couple hundred miles of range. A round of indoor putt putt, shopping, a meal, or whatever. I like to stop every three hours or so anyways. What ticks me off is that the price of “fast” charging feels exploitative. It’s literally more expensive than gas despite being less convenient and less ubiquitous. I just spent about $34 for 202 miles of range. My ICE vehicle would have been $23ish for that same mileage. Sorry for the rant. I say all this to say, it’s a bit intimidating at first, but long trips are still doable and getting better and better with the addition of more fast charging spots. Hopefully, competition starts bringing the price down.
Long trip charges and waking up with 16% battery a Monday morning ahead of work sucks. I’ve been dealing with it for about 4 years already thanks to my work provided EV6.
Still, I would not go back to ICE. It’s a temporary trade off really.
Some modern electric cars can get 500km on 30. minutes of charging from most available chargers. It might take a change to habits but range anxiety is much less of a concern than it once was.
As for the fire risk, yeah EV fires are dangerous but incredibly rare especially with second generation EVs. It’s just highly publicized when it happens because it’s a new technology and people don’t trust new things… And probably a little bit of oil industry narrative pushing.
What cars do that?
With the range of modern EVs, you’re either stopping to rest long enough to charge it, or you’re a reckless driver that should have your license taken away. On road trips, you should stopping every 200-300 miles or so. You should take a 20-30 minute break every 4-6 hours to rest. You’re piloting thousands of pounds of metal screaming down the highway at superhuman speeds. You need rest. You should be taking breaks on long road trips. Just stop and get a meal while you wait for your car to charge. This isn’t that complicated.
Settle down Dad. I was just stating my hesitations about EVs. You’re right. You win. I’m sorry
A couple, longtime friends of mine, retired one of their 2 diesels for an EV last year. They have a charger at home, and just this week ordered a replacement for the 2nd diesel. They’ve ordered a Corolla Hybrid. Not PHEV, plain Hybrid. I can’t fathom why. I understand they may want to have a bit of ICE power there for hedging or whatever, but no plugin? They are in the process of building a new house, and it will have solar. I just don’t get it. I live in a flat, and don’t have convenient charging. I’m considering getting a new car (but not retiring my Skoda Octavia 1st gen, 480.000Km with 0 engine repairs except consummables, 3 years away from classic status), and my first choice right now is the KIA EV VAN. Convenient charging is my only problem right now.
What do you mean about what you read online? Am I going to the wrong places? This stat sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and I don’t even drive one.
My EV is quite possibly the most poorly planned decision of my life.
I live in an apartment and cant charge it overnight. Its a leaf so it only has l2 slow charging and Chademo charging; i live in the US so it doesnt exist – an adapter costs $750 minimum. I charge for 3 hours every week to go a maximum of 70 miles at a time. When its cold out, thats 4 or 5.
I don’t regret it at all, unironically, genuinely.
There’s something to be said for not going to gas stations. Ever.
Yeah, but my version of that is sitting in a dead parking lot for 2 hours to spend $3 on 60 miles with my j1772 connection. I cant wait to have $750 to spend on my stupid computer adapter so i can instead spend 15 minutes at an electric gas station
That “article” is just a link to a 25 minute video. I’m not going to wade through a 25 minute video to find out what points they make.
But let’s get real… The first thing people compare when they go from ICE to EV is how it affects their everyday lives. And immediately, plugging something in when you get home is far easier than going to a gas station.
Most drivers need short range vehicles for daily commutes. EV is just the far superior answer.
That’s the first thing that everybody notices when they get their first EV. Once, I had to use an ICE rental car, and it just felt so silly going to the gas station.
My truck has been in the shop all summer, I’m driving a hybrid rental in the mean time and I feel like I’m using a Flintstones car. I miss my truck and I miss having electric even more.
Why has it been in the shop for months?
Likely a Ferd.
Rivian
Bezos truck. No reason why they have parts shortages.
It’s a Rivian and waiting on parts is a bitch.
That’s one of the electric vehicles that interests me but from the little I’ve read the company is horribly managed. I’ve no interest in a vehicle that could have no parts support in a few years.
I have said it a million times. Whenever I drive a car with an internal combustion engine it feels so incredibly primitive.
Loud, too much vibration, slow start up, doesnt even sound like a spaceship
I was so excited for EVs to be quiet. The spaceship noises make me so sad. Like finally, we figured out a way to make a car that didn’t make too much noise, and we legally added in stupid scifi sounds. These neurotypicals ruin everything.
Ive definitely sneaked up on people, even with the added spaceship sound. Its 100% for safety and honestly too quiet.
That being said a lot of hondas have like an angelic hum that I really hate
I think most of that is due to regulation, it is so you can’t sneak up on someone like Andy in his Prius. Early Model 3s don’t even have a speaker to make the sound so they still don’t, a friend of mine has one and it doesn’t make any woowoo noises
Monke brain like vroom vrroom
Jokes aside, car manufacturers figured consumers would miss that feeling enough to install software in EVs to mimic it.
Yamaha went the extra mile and patented a fake engine for electric bikes that moves and moves air just like a real engine, except it generates negative work.
I hate everything about it and everyone who had a hand on it.
Not so much primative, just the peak of an outdated technology, nostalgic in a way, like when you get on a steam train
It was the smell for me. They all smell like horrible chemicals, I was just blind to it until I spent a few weeks away from one.
So, how does this affect the rapidly growing percentage of people that can’t afford a house to charge their vehicle at? Most LT rentals I’ve looked at in the last decade+ don’t offer that amenity, and I’m not aware that affordable solutions are available for said renters… 🥲
I charge at work, so for renters that is another option for covering the commute (and more). There’s so many car parks without charging (and without solar roofs)… That’s gotta change.
First, let’s actually specifically define the problem. This has nothing to do with home ownership and everything to do with specifically living in rented apartments, not rental units in general. The typical person can meet 100% of their commuting needs by plugging an EV into a regular wall outlet. Unless you’re a fringe case hypermiler, the same outlet you use to power or charge whatever device you’re accessing lemmy on can cover your commute. So let’s not blow this out of proportion and pretend it applies to everyone who rents.
We’re talking only about the portion of the population that:
- Doesn’t own a home of any kind.
- Doesn’t rent a single family home.
- Doesn’t rent a townhouse.
- Lives in an apartment without charging infrastructure.
Some searching suggests there are about 23 million apartment units in the US. So we’re really only talking about 10% of the population here. People renting other housing types may not be able to install a 240V charger in a garage, but they can literally just use any 120V outlet.
For the 10% of the population that lives in apartment units? For these folks, they can continue to do what they already do - fuel their vehicle at a paid facility. The same thing every single ICE vehicle owner does. The absolute worst case scenario for EV ownership is the that charging your EV becomes as big of a hassle as fueling up an ICE vehicle. And the more people own EVs, the more landlords have to discount their outdated apartments without EV charging capability. At some point we’ll just pass laws requiring EV charging. In most areas they already have parking minimums. The cost to add a bit of wiring is a rounding error in the cost of building a parking garage.
We’re talking only about the portion of the population that:
Doesn’t own a home of any kind. Doesn’t rent a single family home. Doesn’t rent a townhouse. Lives in an apartment without charging infrastructure.
Rather than trying to build things from first principles, you can just look at the studies that have already been done. This government study estimated that about 2/3 of households had access to dedicated parking spots.
Apartment access to charging infrastructure is so dependent on the specific property that it’s hard to generalize across all of them. Plus, throw in the fact that some have access to chargers at work or at their regular grocery store that it’s functionally pretty similar to having access to chargers at home.
I know someone who just moved into a rented garage where their assigned spot doesn’t have any access to electricity (not even a normal outlet for level 1 charging) but where the ground floor has a public L2 charger in the same building, so that they can charge “at home” with a little bit of an added inconvenience of needing to move the car when it’s done, so that they can leave it for others.
I appreciate the writeup, though one salient fact is that rentals rarely offer parking spaces within reach of one’s home, nevermind that they’re often communal when they do. Until the traditional act of the fill-up changes to an at-home after thought, adoption’ll continue to struggle, IMHO.
That’s why I distinguished apartments from other forms of rentals. It’s not all rental housing that’s the issue, but specifically apartment units. Someone renting a single family home can charge the EV in the garage or driveway.
The lack of dedicated/assigned/permitted parking is not restricted to apartments alone, to be clear. Hell, even houses these days seem like they’re less and less likely to have a garage, much less a driveway. 🥲
This reply is extremely strange.
You see houses with driveways but no garages. You don’t see houses with garages but no driveways. A driveway is a prerequisite for a garage. You can’t access a garage without a driveway. And building single family houses without any offstreet parking is nearly unheard of nowadays. That was the kind of thing that happened in the streetcar suburbs early in the 20th century. But I don’t know where you’re seeing people building new houses without offstreet parking of any kind. Such houses would be unsellable in today’s market.
Nobody is building new single family homes in dense city centers; the land is too valuable for that. People build houses today in suburbs, and car commuting is the almost universal norm in those places.
Seriously, where do you get the idea that people are building tons of single family homes without off street parking? Your reply just seems completely disconnected from reality.
Here are some actual numbers. The market standard for a new single family home is a two car garage. It looks like only about 7-8% of houses are built without at least a carport, and a good number of those would still have a driveway. And that share has only been going down with time.
It’s rare that I say this, but you’re just completely and totally wrong here. If I’m being generous, maybe you’re in a different country with a radically different housing market. But where I’m at, if someone said this to me in person I would assume they had just had a stroke.
Yes, yes, I mixed up the “much less a” segment; it should’ve read the other way around, but thanks.
The point stands, friend.
Unfortunately I cannot parse what you’re trying to say here at all. Maybe rewrite your original point and post it the way you’re intending to. It’s only a sentence or two. I can’t imagine any interpretation of your correction that would make your original point, “the lack of dedicated/assigned/permitted parking is not restricted to apartments alone” true in anything other than a trivial sense. (Obviously you could find some rare houses built without parking, but they’re the exception that proves the rule.)
The point still stands. 95%+ percent of new houses have off street parking. The lack of parking is almost almost exclusively an issue of apartments. It’s not a problem for houses. It is almost exclusively a problem for apartments alone. There’s no part off your comment that could be flipped around or read the other way that would make your original point true.
So no friend, the point certainly does not stand. It’s fallen down dead.
I don’t doubt the stat, and it’s encouraging. But as a point of reference I will be one of the 6%. The depreciation on my current EV is substantial enough that it makes sense for me to consider an ICE car (one that depreciates very little, likely used) for my next car.
Do you change cars often? Depreciation doesn’t matter when you drive a car into the ground.
The money saved on not buying gas all the time more than makes up for any depreciation anyway.
Not necessarily. I’ve had my [used] EV sedan 48 months, and it’s depreciated $23,000 in that time. That’s $480/month in depreciation alone. I wasn’t paying that in gasoline even in my relatively gas-guzzling 4Runner I had before (a vehicle famous for how little it depreciates.) I was spending about $350 in gas per month with the 4Runner.
I’m not saying it was a bad move that I traded in the 4Runner for the used EV; at the time I needed the lower monthly outlay of cash more than I needed car equity. But boy does it sting seeing that $23k and counting.
What used EV depreciated $23K in four years?
Tesla Model Y. Granted, I’m comparing the price I paid (CarMax) to the current CarMax value, so in reality it’s less than $23k. And I put a fair number of miles on the car, so that’s an issue too. I also missed out on any of the EV credits (bad timing on my part), and the loss of the credit definetly reduced the value of the car.
But my point is that, despite all the great things about EVs and the societal and environmental impact the switch to electric has had, for me personally I’m extremely turned off at the relatively high depreciation of all EVs. When I say my next car will likely be a gasoline powered car, it’s not because I don’t believe in the future of electric vehicles. It’s a) a used small economical gas powered hatchback with low depreciation may (at least for me) offer a lower total cost of ownership than a comparable EV, and b) all new cars and all EVs feel like spaceships to me, and I just want a car.
Teslas have depreciated far more than the category average. EVs in general are still slightly higher than the industry average, but unfortunately the CEN (Chief Executive Nazi) has tanked the value of the vehicle you bought.
That’s a good point. I guess what I’m getting at is that while averages are important metrics, the average EV depreciation isn’t applicable as I’ve yet to find an EV with low depreciation (that would match the vehicle I’d like to be my next car.) That, and the spaceship thing I’m totally over. I’d jump on the Slate truck if that form factor would fit my family.
I totally don’t want any of my comments to be taken as I’m anti-EV. I’m most certainly not. Just trying to give my perspective on why I’m personally stilll looking at a gas powered car.
5 or 6 years. But I don’t typically buy cars new either. I prioritize reliability and safety as much as strict dollars and cents.
Depreciation doesn’t matter when you drive a car into the ground.
That’s not quite true. Even if you “drive it into the ground” (which I don’t like to do), there’s still the amount-paid / years-you-drive-it equation that holds.
If you want to prioritize safety, you’d basically need to drive an EV at this point. The low CG of the battery pack and its added structure do provide significant benefits when it comes to roll over resistance and side impact safety.
I am with you. I leased an EV so I could see if it made sense to purchase. The amount its already depreciated is just insane. On top of, I’m a bit more rural and don’t have many charging options if I want to do a trip. We have to use my partner’s ICE car for any car trips. I can also only trickle charge at home, which makes it harder. I’ve already decided I’m going to buy a used hybrid when I’m done with my lease. Makes the most sense at this point in time, for me at least.
The number of people downvoting me (and you) is disturbing. Neither of us are anti-EV, we’re only explaining why its not working for us personally. And we’re speaking from experience, not simply saying anti-EV things.
I want to have more electric range, but I have a Volt.
Chargers are rare around here, but not so rare all-electric is a problem.
I definitely do not want to go back to gas. It would be nice if my grid was cleaner.
Thats basically what every poll/study I ever read online said…
But I read this online so, I should forget this too?
It’s a podcast
Ohhh so only believe what you hear on podcasts?
You can also believe images and videos, as long as they don’t have any text on them for you to read
Uhh on what sites? Every driver I talk to online or otherwise have nothing but praise for EV.
Yes. Drivers.
But the online mediasphere is chock-full of EV haters regurgitating propaganda about how they’re worse for the environment, the posters suddenly care about child labor in foreign countries, and then there’s the regressive mentally 14 year old tools who can’t handle a car that doesn’t spew noise and exhaust everywhere to make people look at them because that’s a real car. But none of them have owned an EV.
I’m a big car fan, but the majority of car fans are backwards and stubborn. They can’t stand the idea of EV, they have to have the ability to make stupid power with lots of noise to drive to the mall. Thing is there’s room for both EV and ICE cars. They need to get a grip and stop hyperbolizing that it’s a binary choice, ICE is going to be around for a good while longer.
Thing is there’s room for both EV and ICE cars
Eh, maybe this is just my opinon / hot take, but I think we really gotta stop burning petroleum and petroleum products, especially at the individual consumer level.
Yeah, but we can’t switch everyone over immediately. Don’t worry, the trend is there, and it’s good; soon the majority of new cars sold will be EVs, based on what I see. They’re just cheaper.
They need their emotional support vehicle to be noisy because otherwise they are not “real machos”. Driving a silent EV is for girlies, not for realmen™
Real men need stepladders to enter their vehicles.
I legit once saw an old guy stumble over to his giant ass pickup, physically struggle to pull out a step stool from the back seat and then proceeded to climb into the driver’s seat. It was legit terrifying.
Mechanics now need stepladders to look under the hood. It’s all incredibly fucking stupid.
EVs are fast as fuck without even trying. There’s nothing macho about watching an Ioniq 5 blow your gas guzzling street racer off the line.
My Volvo EX30 does the quarter mile in 7.5 seconds, and it only takes that long because it reaches its 180km/hr speed limiter before the end of the quarter mile.
And if you’re not stomping on the go pedal it’s also perfectly fine coasting around shopping centre car parks.
Aaaand it costs me $14.50 for a complete 0-100 percent charge at home, which it can do overnight after taking 10 extra seconds out of my day to plug it in. And then I’m good for another week or so of around-town driving.
But yeah, I can imagine if I had to haul 9000 pounds and 8 people back and forth across the entire continent every week like your typical regular car owner, yeah, I can see how it might be difficult to own an EV.
Mine isn’t quite that fast as it is a 3 row SUV. Nobody expects it to be as fast as it is though. It’s pretty fun to surprise people.
Cheap fillups are the best part. I have solar panels on my house as well so I get paid to drive mine lol
People do have a point about vehicle telemetry and complexity but that’s not unique to EVs or even vehicles in general. I do my best to avoid that kind of thing but it’s difficult when our whole economy revolves around stealing people’s data. You do the best you can in an imperfect world.
Pretty much all the torque is there on demand at whatever speed you happen to be doing, that’s the biggest difference I think.
There’s no changing down a gear or two to spool up the engine to get the acceleration. You want to go a little faster, you just press the pedal.
I’ve seen YouTube videos of those car sales guys talking to customers and then regretting getting an EV because of the distance and lack of charging stations and stuff.
How many of videos are real and all that, I have no idea. Also, most of those customers are rolling negative equity and stuff so not a great judgment.
There’s a car site for leaks and industry news called Auto Spies that just constantly shits on EVs. They used to be good for breaking new car info, but now they have a massively right slant on everything.
Facebook, according to the original headline. But I changed it because I knew I’d be getting 5 different comments from people getting hung up on the ‘Facebook’ part.
As an EV owner, I have a bit of a mixed bag when it comes to people’s opinions on EVs here. Many will approach me to genuinely ask about the car, the range anxiety, recharge, etc because they are curious and thinking on getting one.
Then there’s “the others”. People who for some weird reason hate EVs (especially now that gas is over 2€/lt) will approach me to throw hate on them parroting the usual silly remarks about battery degradation, range, lack of “engine sound”… And it’s funny because I never open up a conversation about my EV, you won’t see me trying to forcefully talk about it… so when I tell them that I don’t care if they like EVs or not, they get even more pissed because they just want to shit on them and hope that I get upset or something? Idk, in Italy there’s this kind of people who need to show others how noisy their car is and how manly they are for driving a car that is noisy.
And it’s funny because I never open up a conversation about my EV, you won’t see me trying to forcefully talk about it
I guess this is a reality similar to that of most vegetarians or vegans…
Was just about to say the same. It’s a great source of unwelcomed conversations alongside queerness and toe shoes.
Oh well toe shoes can go to hell, that makes sense.
Idk, in Italy there’s this kind of people who need to show others how noisy their car is and how manly they are for driving a car that is noisy.
Oh how I wish that was only an Italian thing
As I’ve grown older, I’ve come to realize that many people (too many, IMHO) are not only only somewhat aware* of cultural stereotypes but also seem to willingly, if not proudly adopt them as a vital ingredient to their persona. Like some vibe coders/script kiddies copy-pasting themselves an identity from barely-skimmed “data” they got from a friend of a friend who “totally knows what they’re talking about, bro.” 🙄🤷🏼♂️
*at least, that’s what they’ll tell you, ofc.
Living in the inland northwest US I’ve never had anyone approach me to talk about EVs one way or another. I’ve been driving a Kia Niro EV for a year now. Not even the few times I’ve been into North Idaho.
I don’t think I’d be bothered too much by some EV hater trying to be an ass either though given I’m not the one eating shit at the gas station. Charging from flat to full would cost me $6.40 at home… where I essentially do all my charging at 10¢ / kWh
For some people the politics or aesthetics of their choice of car outweighs the economics or convenience.
I am not rich enough to be one of those people.
Have ya see much difference between Chinese EVs and European ones? I’d like to get me a BYD but it seems very expensive here.
In price? To have a car that had a similar amount of equipment than my atto3, the average difference between the atto and the european brands was around 6-8k euros. And that’s just considering the ADAS (like 360° cam, park sensors, autoswitching beams, etc). If I wanted an euro car with all the other “silly” things like the opening roof, the heated wheeldrive and seats, etc, we were going to almost 10k more expensive.
The U.S. & Canada put a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs. But with the trade war with the USA in full swing hopefully we’ll i state free trade with China.
Now you know how vegetarians and vegans feel. Most don’t bring it up (I only bring it up now in this context), but still get pulled into discussions about it.
Remember, you don’t need to engage. You get pulled in because you want to be pulled in.
I’m usually the one who talks the least on the table when it comes up. I’m really not interested discussing my personal choices. Some people really are though.
I find this fascinating because no one has ever said anything about my car. I was actually worried they would before I got an EV, because of stories like this.
But I’ve had the car for six years now and I have only had pleasant interactions about it.
They are extremely common here though, so that might be partly why.
In fact, once I thought an elderly man was going to ask something snarky. He said “hey, can I ask about your car?” and then he very kindly asked about what the brake calipers were, because he literally had no idea. Then he said “it’s a really pretty car” and then I felt mentally bad for doubting the sweet old guy.
