In trials
When this was posted before someone who followed it fairly closely and others like it, updated the thread with info because the article was behind current info. They had already stopped the trials for MS because it wasn’t working. So they began to just focus on one other, the Crohn’s, I believe. Figuring if they got one to work, they could go back to the others and get them on the right track.
I have MS, and while this is a new approach, there have been so many articles about treatments that end up going nowhere after the first excitement. So it is still very early to get hopes up.
Hope can be a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane, as Red said.
Is it possible that other person was just full of shit?
Here was an update posted on Sept 12th, 2023 from the company behind the trials regarding the MS trials:
Anokion has completed patient enrollment early in the second and final MAD cohort of its MoveS-it (Multiple Sclerosis Study of ANK-700 to Assess Safety and Immune Tolerance) clinical trial to evaluate ANK-700 for the treatment of patients with multiple sclerosis. MoveS-it is a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled Phase 1 study evaluating ANK-700 for the treatment of patients with relapsing remitting multiple sclerosis (RRMS). MS is a demyelinating disease of the CNS, in which the immune system attacks the myelin sheath in the brain and spinal cord. RRMS is the most common type of MS, characterized by recurring episodes of new or worsening symptoms. Anokion has designed ANK-700 to re-educate the immune system by inducing antigen-specific tolerance to myelin-based autoantigens to reduce neuroinflammation in the brain and spinal cord.
Safety data from both the SAD and MAD cohorts supports that ANK-700 is safe and well-tolerated at all dose levels tested through the dose escalation period. Further, preliminary biomarker data from the MAD cohorts displays trends in antigen-specific immune tolerance and evidence of bystander suppression to related myelin antigens, which is critical to treating complex autoimmune diseases like MS.
The study will continue with a 12-month safety follow-up expected to complete in the first half of 2024. Anokion anticipates reporting full results from its MoveS-it clinical trial in the second half of 2024.
This says that the single dose (SAD) phase 1 trial which began in 2020 was completed and they moved on to the second multiple ascending dose trial (MAD) for MS which completed enrollment and expect results in 2024. And that the preliminary data from the first MAD trial indicates therapeutic response.
And the press release talks about how they’ve moved on to a phase 2 trial for its use for celiacs (the initial trial use case). And then on Oct 12th they announced they will be presenting data from their phase 1 for celiacs at a conference.
A week after the announcement quoted above they released the news about their peer reviewed paper mentioning the early success in both (what likely inspired OP’s article), saying:
We have now observed our approach play out in the clinic with early data from our lead programs in celiac disease and multiple sclerosis, KAN-101 and ANK-700, that demonstrated antigen-specific tolerance, bystander suppression, and an impact on disease-specific biomarkers.
None of this looks like a company that has a failing drug on their hands. And there’s no indication of the MS trial being ended early - the only thing that happened early was completing enrollment early.
Being too ready to give up on hope is its own kind of insanity.
T1 diabetes here. A cure is just 5 years away…
They told me, when I was diagnosed in 1992.
It always 5 years if properly funded. It’s never properly funded so always 5 years.
They are testing an artificial pancreas currently. The cost is the issue as always.
We can genetically engineer bacteria to mimic the missing pancreatic cells, and it’s not too different to the way most insulin is produced as all that’s new is the system to stop producing insulin when blood sugars are already low enough. However, if you put them in a person, the immune system attacks the bacteria, so they need isolating. To do that, we need a membrane that lets sugar in and insulin out, but doesn’t let antigens or live bacteria out, and doesn’t let immune cells in. Even if the bacteria are held in place, if immune cells can get in, it’s no better than a pancreatic transplant as you’ll still need immunosuppressants, and they’re generally worse than dealing with type one manually. Development of the membrane keeps hitting unexpected hurdles, so artifical pancreases are still unable to start trials, and then they might take a decade.
There are other approaches, e.g. using electronics to control photosensitive insulin producing bacteria, but they don’t have any advantages (the membrane still has to let sugar in so the bacteria can eat) and have more things that can go wrong.
In theory, and this is another couple of major advancements of this tech away, if you can teach the body to stop attacking specific cells you can do a transplant without rejection. Teach the body to not attack the new pancreas, then stick it in there.
This should be possible with this tech, though it would require a mature and advanced process compared to what we have now. Genetic chimeras can exist without the immune system going crazy, presumably because it recognizes all those parts as “part of the body”. If it can be taught to recognize other implanted material as acceptable that opens up a huge range of options. Even a lifetime of immune system training therapy is better than a lifetime of immunosuppressants.
Ultimately what they need to do is decipher stem cell development and fetal development and use the patient’s own cells to replace the lost islet cells.
If you don’t have a solution to the autoimmune aspect, then a stem-cell-based treatment is no better than one with engineered bacteria or someone else’s cells. The originals are gone because the body mistakenly thought they were foreign. A treatment like the article discusses might make stem cells more viable than the alternatives, though, as they’d be less foreign, so need less immune system alteration.
Commercially viable fusion is always 20 yrs away so keep your chin up
Well damn, I got MS too but caught it fairly early. I’m hoping for a major breakthrough before it gets really bad.
I came for the Orange reference, but was not disappointed by Red.
So, if I understand this right, a more accurate title would be “Research into vaccines against autoimmune diseases continues, new data indicate that a change of focus might be needed”
have Crohn’s. fingers crossed 🤞🏽
Website I’ve never heard of: check
Wild claims that seem too good to be true: check
Little to no proof about said claims: check
Don’t get me wrong, this would be fantastic if it’s true. But I’m sceptical. It feels like all those articles about a cure for cancer that then never go anywhere.
Here’s the article that should have been posted, except of course that it’s a few months old and nothing new has been reported on it yet that I know of. https://pme.uchicago.edu/news/inverse-vaccine-shows-potential-treat-multiple-sclerosis-and-other-autoimmune-diseases
like the good ol r/science
this place is going doooown
I see it in google news all the time. spammy but I don’t see their ads. they gave references near the end.
Every science article is just a comment section disapproving the article. That’s why I stay away from these science communities, it’s all clickbait and lies
At the same time, commenters don’t necessarily know what the fuck they’re talking about either.
Yeah Reddit always had that problem, I think it’s here too - top rated comment is someone saying it won’t work and the article is wrong, everyone just accepts it without question.
I still see people using battery breakthrough stories as an example of stuff that never comes too market despite most of them being in the very phone the person is using.
I genuinely think a lot of them are just people who hate science and engineering so don’t want people to be interested in it
I genuinely think a lot of them are just people who hate science and engineering so don’t want people to be interested in it
So strange for those people to hang out in science communities in that case, to me.
a cat group I started the same time as this has 5k more subs and no whining. it is just cat pics. there are a lot of fake science sites to avoid but they all have bills to pay. they expect it to be like reddit junk and all. been to reddit through search results and sometimes found useful threads. mostly not.
Yeah, I think they come from the front page, I don’t think you see it as much on more obscure articles.
Looks at that… The one thing good about reddit was the /r/science sub, it was always full of moderator deleted comments that were off topic, factually incorrect, etc. posted articles actually were scientific reports and not clickbait crap lik this
Wait. I read above that this article is good. No?
deleted by creator
What’s bad is that it’s a good article. It covers things very well
okay then
This sounds quite exciting and it doesn’t smell like bullshit.
Probably extremely affordable at 3 million a pop for 5 shots.
Easy hack. Get a bunch of more affordable health care services during the year until you reach your out-of-pocket max, then go in and get your 3 million worth of shots all on the insurance company’s dime with zero extra cost to you.
Your claim was denied, due to the insurance provider classifying this treatment as elective or cosmetic, not life saving.
Ah, I see you’ve interacted with the American “health insurance” extortion racket.
Frequently, yes.
Or do this one first to max out your out-of-pocket with the one copay, everything else is “free” all year.
“” because you’re still paying premiums
Article from September. First I’m hearing of it…
If we assume for a moment that it works as advertised - what is it that makes this a vaccine? To me it sounds like a cure or treatment.
The creators call it an inverse vaccine. A vaccine causes the immune system to recognize a compound to attack. This treatment causes the immune system to ignore a compound it had previously recognized. So they are specifically saying it’s not a vaccine (and OP is misrepresenting them), even though that word is in the phrase, something roughly like antivenom is not a venom.
Thanks for the additional clarification!
It is not a cure for the reasons others in this thread have stated. It doesn’t repair damage already done, it only prevents the disease from advancing. That’s still a huge deal, though.
But when it comes to type 1 diabetes the cause is the body destroying beta cells in the pancreas and everything else is a symptom of that. If you can make the body “forget” killing beta cells (like the article states the anti-vaccine would, or rather teach the body to not kill) then it would make sense for the body to recover and repair the damage done.
Wouldn’t it then be a cure?
Yes, from what I know about type 1 diabetes is that once your immune system stops destroying your beta-cells, they regenerate. So that would solve your type 1 diabetes. And you’d have as big a chance of type 2 diabetes as the next guy. And isn’t that the dream 🙂 So 🤞
@be_excellent_to_each_other @m3t00
Vaccines have evolved from prevention/mitigation to now include treatment, and ideally cures.So skimming through the link, it’s a vaccine because it’s still triggering a specific body response to fight the illness as opposed to directly attacking the illness itself? Is that a reasonable layman’s summary of why it’s called a vaccine?
(Old x’er here, Vaccines have been preventative for as long as I’ve ever known, that’s the reason for the question.)
The article says the immune system has a mechanism for teaching it not to attack every time there is a damaged cell via a process in the liver. They are saying they can take a protein, say myelin, and attach it to a sugar called pGal, and it will get ported to the liver where it will also get “trained” to not attack myelin. Then the immune system shouldn’t attack nerve fibers as in MS.
So I guess it qualifies as a vaccine as it is involved in training the immune system though in this case to NOT attack something.
@be_excellent_to_each_other @m3t00
I an X that had the exact same thoughts lol. I’m no expert, but old vaccines often contained some of the virus live or deactivated, whereas mRNA are created and not of biological origin. So more about the front end than the back end.
The amount of science research funded over COVID that allowed for the rapid development and testing of mRNA technology has created a boon for centuries to come. COVID may well be responsible for the death of autoimmune diseases.
Only “ten more years to cure diabetes”
-Science 30 years ago
This still wont cure diabetes, but it will prevent it from developing or advancing if you catch it early enough.
Curing diabetes isn’t as profitable as selling insulin. That’s why it doesn’t get funded.
This doesn’t hold any water, logically.
If you’re selling insulin and I cure/prevent diabetes with a single treatment t, you no longer have a market and I have literally every human being on the planet.
Medical science is an arms race, and cures are nukes. You make the best cure, you win. Full stop.
Medical science is an arms race, and cures are nukes. You make the best cure, you win. Full stop.
You would think that, except pharmaceutical research is rigged towards the few giant corporations that hold the patents. Sure, medical research is an arms race, but who is funding your research? If you find a cure but Pfizer funds you they can patent the cure and bury it or make it cost prohibitive in a variety of different ways.
The original insulin patent is open. Then why does it cost so much money to get insulin for Americans? Again, corporate patent trolling and controlling the funding for research labs. This is why corporate monopolies need to be regulated.
(Also I didn’t realize we do downvoting for disagreements on Lemmy now too)
Dude. Never, ever whine about votes. It just draws down votes, and isn’t cool in the first place.
I’m glad I wrote actually that actually, as the other commenter said they downvoted me for spreading conspiracy theories and I was able to clarify why I wasn’t.
I didn’t downvotes you for a disagreement, but because you’re spreading false conspiracy theories in a science community.
Also I get downvotes for saying true things people don’t like all the time. It isn’t a big deal.
Sure, I’m spreading conspiracy theories. Not like I left chronic disease research and restarted in a completely unrelated field for this exact problem.
I didn’t work for Pfizer, but I did work for another pharmaceutical company you would recognize the name of if you live in North America. And let me tell you, while the labs are trying to do good, the executives and management are rotten to the core. Unless it’s a life threatening infectious disease, they will not prioritize the research. It’s not active suppression most of the time, it’s willful negligence and underfunding. I got into the field hopeful, and left jaded.
It’s not active suppression most of the time,
This is your initial claim, though.
Also, apologies if I come off as aggressive at any point, I still have a lot of residual anger over what I experienced with my former career.
No, my initial claim was:
Curing diabetes isn’t as profitable as selling insulin. That’s why it doesn’t get funded.
Then you opined that whoever comes up with a cure wins, which should be true in a perfect world. In fact, most researchers would agree with you.
Unfortunately, a lot of MBA’s in these pharma companies don’t see it that way, and my reply to you was trying to outline the realities of that. I focussed more on the patent-and-bury part because this is the one method less known to the public (and less used), but underfunding research that can do a public good but isn’t profitable is a common technique by corporations in research, regardless of the discipline.
My bad, I thought this was common knowledge, but it probably isn’t for people who aren’t in PhD/post-doc research roles.
This is the most boomer shit and it is so sad to see people still saying it
Oh fuck yes! I hope this works so badly (living the nightmare with crohns)
One of us…
Thanks, subscribed :)
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: [email protected]
I wonder if it also applies to ulcerative colitis…
Same here friend. The disease is rough and hits everyone differently. Hope you’re doing alright with things tho :)
I would give anything to be rid of this disease. I haven’t slept a full night since 1996. And the pain… And it always seems like nobody understands. ‘Oh him? He just poops a lot, ignore the doom and gloom.’
@Bo7a @CleoTheWizard
Me too 🎯
In my understanding this could reverse the autoimmune reaction to Type 1 Diabetes not regrow the already killed β-cells.
That’s the way it reads, yes.
It would, if effective in human use, stop new damage, but not reverse existing damage.
I was wondering about that, curing Type 1 Diabetes would be a HELL of a breakthrough.
Curing it would lead to massive losses of a specific industry.
It really would. I fear that anything remotely close to a “cure” would be thwarted by pharma because they profit so much from insulin.
I switched jobs a few months ago, and had about 2 weeks without insurance. my insulin prescription was over $4k.
I know that “pharma” can’t just shut something down… but I’m sure there’s some loophole
Call me when the human trials give a positive return
Patience Padawan.
I have 1 autistic kid with T1D and 1 kid with celiac. I’m confident in next 10 years both will be cured.
I’m guessing you mean the diabetes and celiac will be cured, not the autism
Lol yes. I am not a crackpot
Awesome, I have an autoimmune desease that can possibly paralyse me in future. I hope progress can continue 🙏
I wonder if a similar technique could be used to reduce organ transplant rejection.
Same but allergies.
Ehhh, maybe? If I’m reading the article right (and I haven’t yet gone digging past the article to the source itself because that takes more time than I currently have), it’s targeting t cells only. Rejection involves more than just t cells though.
It might be at least partially effective, I’m not trained in the field to be able to predict that much, just basing what I’m saying off of past reading and general information.
I’m not confident in this, though. It’s pretty damn far beyond the level of actual training I’ve had. I can say confidently that the basic techniques they’re talking about should be applicable to more than just autoimmune disorders, just not the degree of efficacy.
There’s just so many more cells involved in something like hyperacute and acute rejection that it’s likely to be something that would have to be more complicated than the already complicated technique they’re working on.
I would say that, if this proves to work in actual humans safely and effectively, that the immune related cancers would be the more probable beneficiaries of the method.
See, most of the autoimmune stuff is a “false positive” the body at some point got fooled by some kind of external agent, that happened to match some part of the body. So, if you wipe out the “memory” of that false positive, the body stops attacking itself.
The cancers that are immune related should respond in a similar way. You’d still have the malignant cells, but it should stop new ones from going crazy, and the usual methods of killing off the existing malignant cells should effectively “cure” the person with drastically reduced chances of relapse.
But with transplants, there’s no false positive. There actually are foreign cells in the body, being constantly exposed to immune cells. There’s also usually more than one kind of cell, so the method they’re using probably would need multiple efforts to work at all, and would likely need to be administered regularly. I’m fairly confident that the method could reduce severity of rejection, but that’s still only fairly lol. But, (disclaimer again), the method should work in either a single or small number of treatments for autoimmune diseases.
I hope like hell this gets into human trials fast. I have a personal stake in it (hence all the reading lol) and what this thing can’t do is undo the damage already done. The person being treated is still going to have whatever degree of disability the disease already caused, so the sooner people can start the treatment, the better off they are.
Most of the diseases explicitly listed as targets for this treatment are fucking brutal. Just one year with MS, as an example, can take someone from healthy and active to being half blind, or unable to walk unaided, or any number of other issues. MS already takes time to diagnose, so pretty much everyone that has it has some degree of disability by the time they start existing treatments. And the existing treatments, as incredible as they are, don’t fully prevent new damage occurring. Nor do all of them work at full efficacy for everyone. You can end up having to try multiple treatments to find the right one for your immune system.
So, most MS patients have a serious amount of time before their disease even gets slowed. My wife, from diagnosis to first partially effective treatment, went almost a year, and lost so damn much from that time plus the effects from before diagnosis. You’re talking someone that was modeling and a jogger being unable to walk down a hallway until over a year of physical therapy, and still can’t handle long walks.
And she didn’t even lose as much as some people do. She also deals with what’s called relapsing/remitting MS (RRMS) which takes breaks between attacks. People with primary progressive MS (PPMS) can lose function faster and more severely. It’s a fucking terrifying disease.
This is starting to go very long and tangential, so I’ll stop after this bit.
I hope like hell it will work for not only the listed diseases, but rejection too. Gods, the lives it could make better if it can do all of that would change the world, along with the individual lives. It would be the scientific equivalent of a miracle cure.
What about Hashimoto’s thyroiditis and Graves’ disease?
That’s a bold claim there, dennis
Not only that, it is a repost from three months ago. Not that OP would be expected to know, but it does take off a few “groundbreaking” points.
I mean, it’s making it to human trials so seems a lot more real than most of these “kills cancer cells in a petri dish” sort of things.
What I mean is the actual article linked to is already months old. Also, that’s great, but it’s not out of the woods yet.
Sounds pretty advanced. I bet they won’t be able to activate the mind control chips until 6G cell services launch.
I was under the impression that we were 5G access points with the covid vaccine?
Was I lied to? I thought I was doing a service to the fellow terminally online.
I remember seeing something on reddit about this earlier this year iirc. Definitely exciting and I certainly hope there is credence to this. Would love to see auto immune disorders go by the wayside in the next couple decades. Once they fix all the real bad ones I hope they make one for vitiligo, I’m tired of 70 spf sunblock and weird looking tans.
