Amino acids are amino acids. Some are harder to get from plants than others.
I wish more people understood that EVERYTHING is chemistry.
And all of chemistry is just physics.
What about consciousness?
Truly the strangest epiphenomenon we’re all aware of
Or is it an epiphenomenon… No one can tell IMO.
You’re certainly not wrong! To me, it seems that consciousness is just what it is to be the kind of machines that we are, and also why sentience/consciousness is so impossible for the sort of synthetic 'AI’s we have that currently exist. But how could we ever really tell? Hard to know what evidence would ever be convincing either way!
Even love?
Especially group sex
with 44 men, so an orgy.
That’s gay.
Gay chemistry!
Homosexual alchemy
Of course! Even love! Just mix a dash of dopamine, a sprinkle of serotonin, a shot of oxytocin, and a hint of norepinephrine. Shake well in a nervous system, serve warm, and call it love!
No, watt is love, so love is energy over time, not chemistry.
No, Shrek is love, Shrek is life.
Kind of surprised, but that is really cool.
I’d be fine with being slightly less strong on a plant based diet
Fortunately that’s not the case
gymbros are afraid of soybased products, eventhough there is very little if any phytoestrogen that affects them in a significant way.
they are more likely to get estrogen-like chemicals from thier plastic bottles and drinking water.
What was animal gender ?
Which one is cheaper?
Can’t speak for this specific blend sourcing they used in this study, but soy protein is usually cheaper in much of the world. It’s why most protein bars use soy protein isolate
Was gonna comment this. More people need to know about this
How many people are having issues with lead?
Now how about cholesterol? Which only comes from animal products.
Hint: cholesterol kills millions of people every year.
Seems like you only care about something if it fits into your bias.
Idk about protien, but vegan food is typically 30% cheaper than the standard American diet.
i doubt this is true.
The global and regional costs of healthy and sustainable dietary patterns: a modelling study
By Marco Springmann, PhD; Michael A Clark, PhD; Prof Mike Rayner, PhD; Peter Scarborough, PhD; Prof Patrick Webb, PhD
November 24, 2021
…Findings
Compared with the cost of current diets, the healthy and sustainable dietary patterns were, depending on the pattern, up to 22–34% lower in cost in upper-middle-income to high-income countries on average (when considering statistical means), but at least 18–29% more expensive in lower-middle-income to low-income countries. Reductions in food waste, a favourable socioeconomic development scenario, and a fuller cost accounting that included the diet-related costs of climate change and health care in the cost of diets increased the affordability of the dietary patterns in our future projections. When these measures were combined, the healthy and sustainable dietary patterns were up to 25–29% lower in cost in low-income to lower-middle-income countries, and up to 37% lower in cost on average, for the year 2050. Variants of vegetarian and vegan dietary patterns were generally most affordable, and pescatarian diets were least affordable.
…
In high-income and upper-middle-income countries, all dietary patterns, except for the high-veg pescatarian diets, were less expensive, with greatest cost reductions for the high-grain vegetarian and vegan diets (cost reductions of 22–34% across the two regions), followed by the high-veg vegetarian and vegan diets (17–27%), the flexitarian diets (12–14%), and the high-grain pescatarian diets (1–3% in each region). InSource: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(21)00251-5/fulltext
they do not explicitly include food from home production or differentiate subgroups within a population.
this also seriously considered poore-nemecek 2018 as a source uncritically.
and they assume everyone is paying full retail price for food, where most poor people actually receive some kind of subsidized or free food.
the model diet they used is not vegan, but flexitarian.
this is not very good evidence you’ve presented, so I still doubt the claim is true
Just to be clear, this is about supplements. It’s doesn’t say anything about differences in dietary protein.
The actual title:
Similar effects between animal-based and plant-based protein blend as complementary dietary protein on muscle adaptations to resistance training: findings from a randomized clinical trial
Edited the title to clarify
What was the original title, just to make some of the comments make sense? I can’t seem to find a way to lookup the history
What relevance does that have? Plenty of studies in the past have already demonstrated dietary plant protein is just as good for you as animal protein.
What relevance does that have?
Well, exposing the click bait in the title and providing context about the actual study involved is relevant because …it exposes the click bait in the title and provides context about the actual study involved.
Plenty of studies in the past have already demonstrated dietary plant protein is just as good for you as animal protein.
This is not relevant to the context of the article, and like the vegan at a party, it’s good information but not part of the discussion about protein supplements during strength training except as an adjacent fact about diet and not about strength training directly nor supplements.
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Huh? It’s what the research is about.
The full article is linked right here in the post. It reviews the background of why they’re studying this
this is about supplements
And supplements are largely unnecessary, so this study says absolutely bupkis.
Right, for the average person, protein supplements are unnecessary as long as they are healthy and eat well.
Athletes (and people with body dysmorphia 😬) might struggle to get enough protein in their diet. But, far too many people think they’re in a position that would warrant supplements when just a little attention to diet is sufficient.
Were these subjects athletes or were they just people who were weight training?
Doesn’t matter. The point of the research was to determine if there was a difference between animal and plant based protein supplements for adding muscle. The results would apply to anyone.
And if neither has much effect, the study is pointless.
I hope there was a control group who had a placebo supplement.
That’s not how science works. You do experiments even to find out if it is pointless.
But, yes, they should have a control group.
So the research was pointless because we can’t tell the difference without a control group. Further research needed.
There are many other reasons to take protein supplements. High protein foods can be expensive (protein can be too but there are many options). It’s also a quick add to a meal vs prepping an entire meal.
You don’t need to be an athlete to workout 5 days a week and if you want to visually see some of the results protein supplements help. It can also help with recovery whether you’re strength, training or training your body in any other way. You don’t have to be an athlete to want to be physically fit. Protein can help.
beef cake. beef cake.
I don’t understand the distinction you’re making.
Unless the study controlled for the subjects’ regular diet and non supplement protein, its conclusions don’t mean much.
For example, if I get 100+g of protein on a typical day then, a 19g protein bar is a nice addition, but it’s in the minority compared to the rest of my protein sources.
There was no control group doing the workouts without protein supplements?
There are already plenty of studies comparing results as a function of protein quantity.
You would still want it as a baseline comparison for the experimental groups.
What would you gain from that? We care about the difference between two interventions. We’re not looking to determine whether an intervention has an effect or not.
Well the plant guys
So when presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary, instead of changing your worldview you just reject reality? Most people grow out of that by age 3, but you do you.
They are getting 9x times the lead according to a recent study… Which is horrifying. Not sure why it needs to have lead at all.
Plants have lead. So do animals, though apparently they can filter it a bit better.
But like we don’t have the ability to filter it or purify it? I mean product before consumption, not in our bodies.
I’m assuming companies just skip it either out of a lack of knowledge, or to save money. I’m basing this on the fact that some brands have less lead than others. But this is just me making an assumption.
Complete tangent, but I am always curious who downvotes these threads? Like there isn’t even anything controversial, did we piss off a supplement manufacturer or something?
These science dudes just want the tasty meats for themselfs
Now let’s have a control group with no supplements
A control group on the juice would also be helpful.
Yes, please. I’d love to see that.
But one of them didn’t smell as bad as the other
There’s plenty of other factors that need to be considered. There will be significant differences in iron levels, b12, calcium, vitamin d, etc.
If you’re vegetarian/vegan, you absolutely need to monitor multiple other levels and take the appropriate supplements. Pretending otherwise is really dangerous.
The study itself makes none of the claims you’re rallying against.
It looks like the OP started with a title that was misleading and it has been corrected so now your post looks out of place.
Studies show 92% of meat eaters are nutrient deficient in at least one vitamin or mineral.
The rate for vegans is 30%
Worry about yourself.
You can get all of that just fine on a veg diet without artificial supplementation. Just eat a fucking vegetable dude.
Not b12. Vegans have to supplement with b12.
Vegan sources of vitamin B12 include fortified plant-based milks, fortified cereals, nutritional yeast, and certain types of algae, several types of mushrooms, most meat and dairy replacements are fortified with b12.
And a single energy drink contains 5x or more the daily dose of b12.
So you could buy a bunch of processed crap with vitamins in it and hope you get enough.
…Or you could just take the vitamins.
I recommended just taking vegan b12 every day. It’s a requirement and very small sacrifice to make for living a better life without having to consume animal parts
Mushrooms and nutritional yeast.
Please don’t spread misinformation. That’s a path to someone developing neurological disease.
Plenty of swole guys are vegetarian. Not Vegan. The difference is vegetarians don’t tell everyone.
No shit
Have you ever considered how many times you’ve thought “no shit” in response to something completely wrong?
Scientists: Meticulously design and implement study to develop evidence, contribute to knowledge base.
Internet Dudebro: “No shit.”
You know it’s funny. I’m getting called a lib by the left, which I am ironically part of and a dudebro by you, science person, of which group I am also a part of. Plant protein and animal protein having no difference in muscle development has been know forever. Studied in detail by millions of athletes on their own bodies. Your comment assumes I do not appreciate the data produced by this study, which is false.
Just because you don’t like my comment does not mean you get to define me.
Uh…ok?
Your comment assumes I do not appreciate the data produced by this study, which is false.
It was actually your comment that gave this impression…
Also FYI: if you are getting enough calories, you are almost certainly also getting enough protein. The RDA for protein is quite low, 0.8g per kg bodyweight, or about 10% of your caloric intake. You can meet this by eating just grains. However, as mentioned in the linked source, the RDA is intended to prevent nutrient deficiencies, not provide an optimal level of intake.
To gain muscle you should be eating 1-1.4 grams of protein bet lb of bodyweight
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Nobody said that was the reason.
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Yeah but not everyone has the money
There are easier and more effective ways to make girls want to be with you.
This is indeed one of the main reasons people start, but it quickly switches over to working out for yourself. So while what you say is true, I don’t agree with messages of this nature because it takes away one of the strongest motivators for a lot of people to better themselves.
Actually we do it for ourselves and to look cute for each other. Wait… uh-oh.
I don’t care if girls want to be with me. I want to be as stronger than I was last week. It’s something in my life I can work towards that I actually have control over.
Just checking in, you good?
No but I’m strong 💪
That sounds…unsustainable.
I’ll worry about that when I get there.
I’ve literally never had a serious partner tell me that me lifting was a reason they wanted to be with me, period. To me this just sounds like a bizarre fanfic scenario you read.
Going to the gym for an hour a few days a week and running a few miles on off days isn’t an “obsession”, it’s just general fitness. I get one go around this rock and one body to do it with. Being fit makes the experience much better, and makes ME feel good about my body and the progress I’ve made, damned be anyone else’s opinion.
Radical concept, but not everyone in the gym is a roided out manosphere moron trying to slay pussy because of brainwashing.
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King, it is okay. Take a breath. No one here is attacking anyone, just dispelling potentially harmful opinions. I know for a lot of people getting into fitness and going to the gym is intimidating, but it doesn’t have to be. I’ve had quite a few women and LGBT tell me that they read comments like yours online and don’t want to try working out, because they think everyone in the gym is Joe Rogan or Andrew Tate, and that they will be mocked or hurt. This is just not even close to reality.
Most people are just there for the love of the game or for the gains, that’s it. No one who takes their fitness seriously thinks it is just an easy way to trick women, I promise you.
Fitness is for everyone and should be made more accessible, not more intimidating or off-putting, its great and improves your life. There are plenty of people like me in the gym that would readily and happily help others at the drop of a hat, no strings attached.
100%. I don’t work out at the gym, but if there is one thing we don’t need in the world, it would be people gatekeeping others on exercise.
Found the obese American.
The mix of metric and fantasy units is quite infuriating
On the face of it, yeah. But since we are talking about a ratio of nutrient to body weight, there’s no inherent benefit besides ideological purity to using the same units for both sides of the ratio.
In the states, nutritional info is universally listed in grams, and bodyweight is most commonly measured in pounds, so in that context g/lb is a perfectly logical way to describe recommended intake levels.
To an American, yes.
…as I explicitly stated in my comment?
Ah nooo converting units is so difficult for my widdle iddy biddy brain pwease stawwp im gonna pooooo
no. it’s just annoying that weirdos think that using an antiquated unit system on an international medium is fine.
Fucking americans with their fucking american world centrism
Oh wow I finally get to meet the Main Character of the Universe! Can I have your autograph?
sure, please post your address
P. Sherman 42 Wallaby Way Sydney, Australia
Let’s not get aggressive about it. The world knows that Americans have one of the least effective systems and are often viewed as inferior
That’s a rather excessive amount unless you mean g protein/kg instead of g protein / lbs
People who exercise regularly also have higher needs, about 1.1-1.5 grams per kilogram. People who regularly lift weights or are training for a running or cycling event need 1.2-1.7 grams per kilogram. Excessive protein intake would be more than 2 grams per kilogram of body weight each day.
2g / kg = ~0.9g /lbs for reference
Not rice, surely?
Rice does come up a bit short by my calculations, if you are just meeting your caloric intake needs. Oats provide more than enough, though.
Yes. You don’t need to exceed protein requirements to be healthy.
You do need to exceed protein requirements if you’re trying to build muscle as fast as possible, which is what this article is about
Study does not say anything about the diet of the subjects. This would make more sense if it was 22 vegan men with plant-protein supplement and 22 carnivore diet men with animal-protein supplement and a control of typical diet with no supplement.
There are a lot of upvotes here. Why would this make more sense?
Agreed, this is a dumb comment that has no relation to the study being done, only some study they imagined in their mind.
People love to second guess scientific studies like they’re set up by complete fucking morons with no review or oversight. Truly their 10 seconds of amateur brilliance is going to see the trivial flaw no one among the team of people doing this as their actual job noticed. If something sounds obviously wrong in a science article, the source of that wrongness is almost certainly either the author of the article or you.
The author changed the title and the original seems to be what a lot of these comments are rallying against:
Even better is if they controlled for total protein intake, since we know that to be an important factor in muscle growth.
Hard, since basically everything has protein in it
OK that does not mean that much though because the sample group is way too small to draw some real hard science out of it.
Saying that as a plant protein lover.
What? The sample group is not way too small lol. It is fine.
On top of that, there are already many other such studies on gym goers, comparing whey with vegan options, such as pea and soy protein. Those studies show that vegan options are as good as whey.
You can’t measure anything with a high level of confidence with 40 people. Typical health studies have hundreds to thousands of participants. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10000262/
