What was animal gender ?
But one of them didn’t smell as bad as the other
There’s plenty of other factors that need to be considered. There will be significant differences in iron levels, b12, calcium, vitamin d, etc.
If you’re vegetarian/vegan, you absolutely need to monitor multiple other levels and take the appropriate supplements. Pretending otherwise is really dangerous.
Studies show 92% of meat eaters are nutrient deficient in at least one vitamin or mineral.
The rate for vegans is 30%
Worry about yourself.
The study itself makes none of the claims you’re rallying against.
It looks like the OP started with a title that was misleading and it has been corrected so now your post looks out of place.
You can get all of that just fine on a veg diet without artificial supplementation. Just eat a fucking vegetable dude.
Not b12. Vegans have to supplement with b12.
Mushrooms and nutritional yeast.
Please don’t spread misinformation. That’s a path to someone developing neurological disease.
Vegan sources of vitamin B12 include fortified plant-based milks, fortified cereals, nutritional yeast, and certain types of algae, several types of mushrooms, most meat and dairy replacements are fortified with b12.
And a single energy drink contains 5x or more the daily dose of b12.
So you could buy a bunch of processed crap with vitamins in it and hope you get enough.
…Or you could just take the vitamins.
I recommended just taking vegan b12 every day. It’s a requirement and very small sacrifice to make for living a better life without having to consume animal parts
Plenty of swole guys are vegetarian. Not Vegan. The difference is vegetarians don’t tell everyone.
Also FYI: if you are getting enough calories, you are almost certainly also getting enough protein. The RDA for protein is quite low, 0.8g per kg bodyweight, or about 10% of your caloric intake. You can meet this by eating just grains. However, as mentioned in the linked source, the RDA is intended to prevent nutrient deficiencies, not provide an optimal level of intake.
Not rice, surely?
Rice does come up a bit short by my calculations, if you are just meeting your caloric intake needs. Oats provide more than enough, though.
To gain muscle you should be eating 1-1.4 grams of protein bet lb of bodyweight
Yah but counterpoint: the current male obsession with protein and muscle gains is a bit of a commercialized farce. There are easier and more effective ways to make girls want to be with you.
edit: If you actually work out for yourself and your own goals, I don’t get how you would feel offended at this. Either you’re doing it for yourself and nothing anyone says matters, or your identity is tied up in a specific image and comments like mine (which is DELIBERATELY provocative you dunces) will make you feel attacked.
I’ve literally never had a serious partner tell me that me lifting was a reason they wanted to be with me, period. To me this just sounds like a bizarre fanfic scenario you read.
Going to the gym for an hour a few days a week and running a few miles on off days isn’t an “obsession”, it’s just general fitness. I get one go around this rock and one body to do it with. Being fit makes the experience much better, and makes ME feel good about my body and the progress I’ve made, damned be anyone else’s opinion.
Radical concept, but not everyone in the gym is a roided out manosphere moron trying to slay pussy because of brainwashing.
Everything about your comment would have been excellent, but by adding this:
To me this just sounds like a bizarre fanfic scenario you read.
That makes you come across as breathlessly offended and makes it all seem like defensiveness for being called out. Learn how to communicate as well as how to lift. The fact that you know the manosphere language while denying it’s a social trend that many people follow is also not lost on me.
Are you the kind of person I’m talking to/about? No? THEN CALM THE FUCK DOWN AND GO DO SOMETHING ELSE.
King, it is okay. Take a breath. No one here is attacking anyone, just dispelling potentially harmful opinions. I know for a lot of people getting into fitness and going to the gym is intimidating, but it doesn’t have to be. I’ve had quite a few women and LGBT tell me that they read comments like yours online and don’t want to try working out, because they think everyone in the gym is Joe Rogan or Andrew Tate, and that they will be mocked or hurt. This is just not even close to reality.
Most people are just there for the love of the game or for the gains, that’s it. No one who takes their fitness seriously thinks it is just an easy way to trick women, I promise you.
Fitness is for everyone and should be made more accessible, not more intimidating or off-putting, its great and improves your life. There are plenty of people like me in the gym that would readily and happily help others at the drop of a hat, no strings attached.
100%. I don’t work out at the gym, but if there is one thing we don’t need in the world, it would be people gatekeeping others on exercise.
I don’t care if girls want to be with me. I want to be as stronger than I was last week. It’s something in my life I can work towards that I actually have control over.
That sounds…unsustainable.
I’ll worry about that when I get there.
Just checking in, you good?
No but I’m strong 💪
There are easier and more effective ways to make girls want to be with you.
This is indeed one of the main reasons people start, but it quickly switches over to working out for yourself. So while what you say is true, I don’t agree with messages of this nature because it takes away one of the strongest motivators for a lot of people to better themselves.
Actually we do it for ourselves and to look cute for each other. Wait… uh-oh.
Found the obese American.
Nobody said that was the reason.
But we all know it often is.
Yeah but not everyone has the money
The mix of metric and fantasy units is quite infuriating
On the face of it, yeah. But since we are talking about a ratio of nutrient to body weight, there’s no inherent benefit besides ideological purity to using the same units for both sides of the ratio.
In the states, nutritional info is universally listed in grams, and bodyweight is most commonly measured in pounds, so in that context g/lb is a perfectly logical way to describe recommended intake levels.
To an American, yes.
…as I explicitly stated in my comment?
Ah nooo converting units is so difficult for my widdle iddy biddy brain pwease stawwp im gonna pooooo
no. it’s just annoying that weirdos think that using an antiquated unit system on an international medium is fine.
Fucking americans with their fucking american world centrism
Oh wow I finally get to meet the Main Character of the Universe! Can I have your autograph?
sure, please post your address
P. Sherman 42 Wallaby Way Sydney, Australia
Let’s not get aggressive about it. The world knows that Americans have one of the least effective systems and are often viewed as inferior
That’s a rather excessive amount unless you mean g protein/kg instead of g protein / lbs
People who exercise regularly also have higher needs, about 1.1-1.5 grams per kilogram. People who regularly lift weights or are training for a running or cycling event need 1.2-1.7 grams per kilogram. Excessive protein intake would be more than 2 grams per kilogram of body weight each day.
2g / kg = ~0.9g /lbs for reference
Yes. You don’t need to exceed protein requirements to be healthy.
You do need to exceed protein requirements if you’re trying to build muscle as fast as possible, which is what this article is about
Except for the fact that we still can’t get plant protein at the cost taste and amount.We need. So i’m stuck with way, and we’re stuck with stories about buo protein i can’t get to enjoy. Like lab burgers
Looking at healthline.com (I don’t know if they’re actually reputable, but we’re just looking at servings and prices, so why not) we see the pea protein powders cost between $0.47-$2.84 per 28 grams (which is about one serving for the 3 powders I looked at) and whey protein powders cost between $0.78-$7.27 per serving.
One of the websites they link sells both a protein and whey option, both at the same price. I’m not sure that cost is really a factor for deciding between the two.
Not to mention all the heavy metals that plants extract to grow and then we concentrate that in one place means that the lead concentration is out of safe daily levels for most servings of plant protein…
Amino acids are amino acids. Some are harder to get from plants than others.
I wish more people understood that EVERYTHING is chemistry.
Even love?
Of course! Even love! Just mix a dash of dopamine, a sprinkle of serotonin, a shot of oxytocin, and a hint of norepinephrine. Shake well in a nervous system, serve warm, and call it love!
Especially group sex
with 44 men, so an orgy.
That’s gay.
Gay chemistry!
Homosexual alchemy
No, watt is love, so love is energy over time, not chemistry.
No, Shrek is love, Shrek is life.
And all of chemistry is just physics.
What about consciousness?
Truly the strangest epiphenomenon we’re all aware of
Or is it an epiphenomenon… No one can tell IMO.
You’re certainly not wrong! To me, it seems that consciousness is just what it is to be the kind of machines that we are, and also why sentience/consciousness is so impossible for the sort of synthetic 'AI’s we have that currently exist. But how could we ever really tell? Hard to know what evidence would ever be convincing either way!
OK that does not mean that much though because the sample group is way too small to draw some real hard science out of it.
Saying that as a plant protein lover.
What? The sample group is not way too small lol. It is fine.
On top of that, there are already many other such studies on gym goers, comparing whey with vegan options, such as pea and soy protein. Those studies show that vegan options are as good as whey.
You can’t measure anything with a high level of confidence with 40 people. Typical health studies have hundreds to thousands of participants. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10000262/
Might want to look into the levels of lead in their blood.
I noticed this recently after looking at a circulating post “protein powder high led” or something.
The plant based ones seemed to always have higher amounts of led, is that a thing?
There is lead in the dirt that is taken up by the plants. This lead then gets into the digestive system of the animal from which the protein will be derived. This causes lead to be present in animal based protein supplements.
However, a significantly smaller amount will pass from the plant to the animal than from the dirt to the plant. As such, plant based protein powders will contain a higher concentration of lead unless it is removed at some point during the process, as the plants just have more lead in them than the animals.
gymbros are afraid of soybased products, eventhough there is very little if any phytoestrogen that affects them in a significant way.
they are more likely to get estrogen-like chemicals from thier plastic bottles and drinking water.
It doesn’t look like they had a control group of people doing the strength training without any protein supplement. I would assume that group would also perform the same.
My assumption is the non-supplement group would actually perform better. Actual food has tons of other nutrients the body uses for countless other tasks that are directly and indirectly related to muscle building
Typically protein supplements are in addition to regular food not a meal replacement when trying to build muscle.
The study participants were given protein supplements, not a dietary replacement.
Kind of surprised, but that is really cool.
I’d be fine with being slightly less strong on a plant based diet
Fortunately that’s not the case
Which one is cheaper?
Can’t speak for this specific blend sourcing they used in this study, but soy protein is usually cheaper in much of the world. It’s why most protein bars use soy protein isolate
How many people are having issues with lead?
Now how about cholesterol? Which only comes from animal products.
Hint: cholesterol kills millions of people every year.
Seems like you only care about something if it fits into your bias.
Was gonna comment this. More people need to know about this
Idk about protien, but vegan food is typically 30% cheaper than the standard American diet.
i doubt this is true.
The global and regional costs of healthy and sustainable dietary patterns: a modelling study
By Marco Springmann, PhD; Michael A Clark, PhD; Prof Mike Rayner, PhD; Peter Scarborough, PhD; Prof Patrick Webb, PhD
November 24, 2021
…Findings
Compared with the cost of current diets, the healthy and sustainable dietary patterns were, depending on the pattern, up to 22–34% lower in cost in upper-middle-income to high-income countries on average (when considering statistical means), but at least 18–29% more expensive in lower-middle-income to low-income countries. Reductions in food waste, a favourable socioeconomic development scenario, and a fuller cost accounting that included the diet-related costs of climate change and health care in the cost of diets increased the affordability of the dietary patterns in our future projections. When these measures were combined, the healthy and sustainable dietary patterns were up to 25–29% lower in cost in low-income to lower-middle-income countries, and up to 37% lower in cost on average, for the year 2050. Variants of vegetarian and vegan dietary patterns were generally most affordable, and pescatarian diets were least affordable.
…
In high-income and upper-middle-income countries, all dietary patterns, except for the high-veg pescatarian diets, were less expensive, with greatest cost reductions for the high-grain vegetarian and vegan diets (cost reductions of 22–34% across the two regions), followed by the high-veg vegetarian and vegan diets (17–27%), the flexitarian diets (12–14%), and the high-grain pescatarian diets (1–3% in each region). InSource: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(21)00251-5/fulltext
they do not explicitly include food from home production or differentiate subgroups within a population.
this also seriously considered poore-nemecek 2018 as a source uncritically.
and they assume everyone is paying full retail price for food, where most poor people actually receive some kind of subsidized or free food.
the model diet they used is not vegan, but flexitarian.
this is not very good evidence you’ve presented, so I still doubt the claim is true
More research isn’t a bad thing, but this really isn’t news. If you’re a nerd who’s into lifting you’d already know that soy protein is a top tier source of all the important amino acids for muscle gain. And it’s cheaper than whey.
It’s also not very popular because the manosphere tells men that consuming it will feminize them. Yes, really. They took the “soy boy” thing very literally and ran with it off the deep end.
I recently decided to restart my routine after 8+ years of dickin’ around and this is blowing my mind right now. What else has changed? Is creatine and NO2 still a thing?
Creatine is still very much a thing, but I think everyone actually knows what it is and what it does and it’s not treated as a magic bullet any more.
Mainly what seems to have changed is that steroids and TRT have exploded in popularity, and a scary number of under 18s are doing it.
Apart from that I couldn’t tell you, it’s all happening on Insta and TikTok now and I don’t participate.
Last time I checked what’s available on my grocery store shelf, the whey protein was still the cheapest by unit.
Where I live grocery stores are a terrible example, all the plant proteins are jacked up in price with marketing about how it’s organic and vegan and will cure cancer yada yada. And then the wheys they sell are blends with low actual protein content and/or poor aminos.
I buy my protein from a bulk supplements supplier, and soy is 75% of the cost of the cheapest whey, gram for gram of actual protein content.
I get my protein from Canadian protein dot com. The vegan protein is the same price as the whey concentrate and a little cheaper than the whey isolate.
I’ve never gotten it before mostly because I’m a creature of habit but might get some to try the next time I order because the dairy has not been sitting well with my stomach lately.
It appears to be mostly pea, brown rice and hemp.
I don’t know if this is a problem specific to Canadian Protein’s vegan protein, but the one time I tried it, it had the kind of grittiness that sent me into a coughing fit on each sip. Completely undrinkable. It also had this awful flavour evocative of wet cardboard, which they assured me was normal.
That’s fine.
I’m a 40 year-old man and I’ll still post up next to a group of these Gen-Z pansies and put up 300 pounds on the bench with my gnarled, old man physique.
Oh my god, everyone look at how tough this tough guy is!
How to tell someone you’re jealous without saying it out loud. Cheers, friend.
Jealous of what exactly? Lol. Edit: Hahaha, holy fuck guys, read this guy’s bio if you want a good laugh.
My bad dude, I thought you were serious. Poes law in action.
Oh I know right bro, right? Bro?
It does have some protoestrogens but to me that is a positive because I want to look fem. Most men have low estrogen and it makes them uglier and psychotic. The only time estrogen really feminizes you beyond giving you a better body shape and slightly healthier skin and stuff, is when you are taking a high amount of it.
Most men have too low of estrogen and this causes mental issues, depression, it gives them a lot of fat around their stomach while being lanky everywhere else. It causes all kinds of weird little issues.
Perhaps you mean phytoestrogen? Another commenter suggested that the applicable phytoestrogen found in soy may actually be protective against excess estrogen.
Idk I’m not a scientist
I get that. But you are making a number of statements/claims about the effects of estrogen on men, so at the very least it would help your credibility to get the word right. Hell, when I tried Googling “protoestrogen”, the Google AI said it wasn’t a word in any kind of normal use but was in a 1998 paper about the possible origins of estrogen.
Shit man, I think I need to hop on this soy boy train myself!
It’s fitting too because I’ve been taking in a little extra protein and putting on some muscle for the past few months due to some hobby stuff that led to construction projects, lol.
Yeah don’t fear the estrogen. Most men could use a bit more of it.
People continue parroting this soy estrogen myth even years after it’s been debunked too, it’s annoying as hell. The phytoestrogen in question is more of an anti-estrogen and may be protective against excess estrogen.
If soy actually caused boob growth, the supplement industry would be all over that.
bigger issue with these powders and shit (least in the US) is that damn near non-existent food/drug safety oversight means that your probably getting dosed with a bunch of lead or some other contaminate…
I remember about a decade ago talking about tofu recipes with a colleague who lifted and ate a protein heavy diet.
An older colleague heard us and warned us that eating tofu would cause you to have a surplus of estrogen and make you more feminine.
He was telling this to a guy built like a brick shithouse who had eaten tons of soy protein for the better part of a decade.
It’s that same old thing, something different comes along and some people just have to parrot anything that goes against that thing, even if it’s complete and utter horseshit
Do they forget that estrogen is also a steroid?
Yes, yes they do. Or, more accurately, they didn’t know that in the first place. These people are often just running on what are essentially old wives’ tales of things to be afraid of because it will hurt their masculinity or something.
As a human survival trait we need to find a way to shut down misinformation. Knowledge is our path to survival as an animal. Like ants have teamwork and building, wildebeest have speed, plants photosynthesise, humans learn.
By creating and spreading misinformation you’re chipping away at pretty much the only thing that keeps us in existence.
Bit of a broad-strokes extreme takeaway from your comment there, but it got to me.
I just left a thread about analog clocks being removed from schools because the kids can’t read them. The comments alone were quite telling on how many humans don’t want to learn much of anything anymore.
Ugh I had an older colleague, a PhD organic chemist, who was absolutely convinced that soy would make me (m) infertile. I ordered tofu once when out to lunch and he would not stop warning me to “be careful” and to be mindful of starting a family and “you know those studies.” When I mentioned that the consensus was at best inconclusive and most likely there is no such link, he said that no, “they” definitely showed that excess soy is bad and that he worried about my reproductive health. Like dude even if eating tofu did cause reproductive health issues, mine is none of your goddamn business. On the other hand, the same guy is also convinced that BPA (another estrogen mimic used esp. in certain plastics) concerns are a total hoax because “they did bad science because their sample containers had BPA in them and it leached into the urine samples giving false positive.” Also something about the only evidence of it binding like estrogen was that someone glanced at a crystal structure and halfassedly thought it looked like it might fit and rolled with it for career reasons. Like, I don’t know, man, maybe a couple studies used containers made with BPA, but most probably didn’t. I haven’t read them, but I know you didn’t, either. Also, you’re literally a petrochemist, you know BPA is mostly used in polycarbonates, and lab plastics, especially for analytical work, are mostly polypropylene or polyethylene designed to avoid exactly this kind of leaching. Honestly.
Misogyny is a helluva drug
I’m a nerd and into lifting, but I took a pause for oh very many years, so I’m currently still emptying my 2.something kilogram tub of Optimum Nutrition whey protein, which tastes decent enough. Do you have a recommendation on decent tasting soy protein, especially something available in Europe?
I pretty much look like a bear so it’s going to be very difficult to feminize me lol
Meat and dairy contains hormones that increase estrogen and reduce testosterone, not plants.
That may be, I was just saying I’m not particularly concerned about it anyway.
Yeah I know, that’s why T levels in the USA has dropped by 20% in the last 20 years and obesity is rapidly increasing.
Pretty sure obesity is increasing because people are sedentary and eat like shit.
Testosterone is known to go down in obese people so I think you have your cause and effect reversed there.
obesity, the fat produces eostrogen compounds, thats why it also reduces pregnancy chances too,. thats why its not safe for obese people to be pregnant.
also your plastic bottles, and people dump so much birth control into the water system too.
Microplastics is a hard one to study, I think it does have a detrimental effect on testosterone though.
I bet the lead count in their system changed.
Plants in general can contain more lead from soil whereas animals will filter it out before you consume their flesh, but the amounts they found were still well below what is recommended for other plant products such as fruit juice. After looking into it when I saw that study it kinda sucks how much lead is still in a lot of things. I’d be curious to see a bigger study comparing the lead found in people that use the plant-based powder or are vegetarian versus meat-eaters.
You’re exposed to far more lead and other heavy metals living near a road than with this. So no, not a measurable amount.
Reposting my comment from another thread about this so people stop spreading this bullshit around:
I have a Garden of Life powder so I did a little digging and the powder I have and the Garden of Life powder tested in this report are both NSF certified. I trust NSF way more than I trust CR when it comes to contaminant levels, NSF is trusted by multiple countries for their public health standards. Also the “level of concern” used by CR is not the max level of safe consumption, it’s the minimum level to trigger a Prop 65 warning. Some agencies use 8.8 ug, the NSF used 10 ug, which are about ~15-20 times the 0.5 ug used by CR. This is also from one round of testing, NSF does yearly audits and re-tests products regularly to keep their NSF certification.
https://www.nsf.org/nutrition-wellness/product-and-ingredient-certification
That being said, it is healthier to get your protein from whole foods than from powders and most people wildly overestimate how much protein they actually need.
most people wildly overestimate how much protein they actually need.
Amen to that. It’s hilarious to watch the protein craze in action. I thought it might gradually die down decades ago, due to being able to find reliable information very easily. Instead it’s gotten remarkably worse over time.
Wait till you learn what happens when you eat animals
Fairly certain it’s not lead poisoning
It’s shorter life, cardiac disease, and cancer.
Don’t forget diabetes.
That is if you eat big animals regularly instead of smaller ones.
Vegans simply ignore the fact that humans are omnivores. One needs enough physical activity as well to reduce the risks for everything that you mentioned.
I know people who ate a lot of meat and did not workout and died early. I know people who are vegetarians who didn’t workout and died early as well. In both cases one might die earlier than the other. What matters is a balanced diet, physical activity and the rest of your lifestyle including sleep, sex life, stress and social life as well.
Oh yeah, I forgot about this. It’s going to be tough to do anything about this with the current administration in office.
Also there’s arsenic is lots of brown rice. I think the stuff from California or India is pretty safe.
Lead arsenate was a very common pesticides for decades.
you know…we can look back and make fun of the romans for using lead water pipes even though they knew lead caused all sorts of health problems.
then…to this day not only do we still have lead water pipes, we decided to spray it on all of our food.
it’s a wonder we survived as a species at all tbh
There’s no reason to panic if you’ve been using any of the products we tested, or if you take protein supplements generally. Many of these powders are fine to have occasionally…
I found this quote hilarious, I don’t know anyone who takes protein powder occasionally. They are either taking it mosts days out of the week or not at all in my experience.
I am one of that group. I only take it if I went to the gym and have a surplus in my daily calories. Doesn’t happen more frequently than once per week. Overdoing protein supplements can mess up your body, too.
I am slightly surprised that both groups lost a similar amount of fat.
Oh, right, supplements. So similar amount of fat as well. Well, kind of an obvious result and doesn’t really say a whole lot about the differences between plant- and protein-based diets.
There is a very large contingent of people who believe animal protein is superior to plant protein in every way, shape, or form. So this result isn’t obvious to them.
Apparently the animal protein has less lead.
it also depends on the exercise and your goals. they aren’t equivalent.
I am a distance cyclist. animal protein works better for recovery for me than plant protein. I have tried both.
I am not trying to build muscle. I am trying to recover from endurance efforts. whey protein cuts my recovery time down by almost a full day vs plant protein.
I’m afraid you replied to the wrong comment, Comrade.
Such people unfortunately won’t be reading science papers or understanding their significance.
Depends. Price points can be vastly different. Plant based stuff is often novel pricing.
Thats because it is? 100g of chicken has around 21g of protein. To get the same amount of proteins from plant, you would need to consume around 1000g of plants(give or take). This is why people should be really be eating both. You know, to be healthy and shit.
When talking about supplements, grams of protein in relation to grams of food is irrelevant.
The study is about grams of protein in a supplement, not grams of food eaten. This is the same thing as “What heavier: 1kg of steel or 1kg of wool?”
Also, you don’t need to eat 1000g of plants to get 21g of protein.
Peanuts have 26 grams of protein per 100g, that’s more than your example of chicken.Black pepper is about 10% protein by weight. So, if you want to be gross, that’s about 210g of black pepper.
26g of protein sure, but also 570 calories. Lean meats are hard to compete with, especially on a cut.
The person I was replying to didn’t mention calories, so I didn’t bring it up either. I was just trying to show that they were just talking out of their ass.
The article is also about protein powder, so we’re getting further and further from what this is even about.Extra-firm tofu competes with chicken breast for protein per calorie.
