Thieves in the US will just pull a gun on you and turn it into a robbery. It’s simply safer for them to come out of the gate with you at an obvious disadvantage.
Can you draw your weapon before they can pull their trigger? Go ahead, punk. Make my day.
Yeah, this seems to be the most plausible answer here, assuming the baseline claim is true.
It tooke me years to understand that in the US apparently instead of burglars just breaking in, stealing stuff and leaving, “home invasions” are a thing, where people are facing armed robbery in their houses, often including rape. It seems that in the US crime often has a much more violent and hateful component to it than in other western countries.
Eh our burglaries sometimes turn into sexual violence too even without guns involved. And it should be unferstoo that “home invasion” means everything from a quick burglary while you’re out of town to an armed robbery with rape. But yeah it’s important to understand that we do overly focus on the latter and ignore that the former is far more likely even here, but thieves in America often have guns. Crime is disproportionately violent here, but we also are really focused on the most violent crime because it’s sensational and serves as common excuses for bigotry and for gun ownership.
Like when I suffered a home invasion I became acutely aware of how few people I knew had experienced such a thing (and were willing to volunteer that information). So many people own a gun to deal with a violent robbery with rape, yet few know anyone who’s experienced that, a gun kept safely is unlikely to help, and they’re significantly more likely to be harmed by their own gun than someone else’s.
Around 5 years ago, still in reddit I did a comparison between US and EU crime rates. Despite my prejudice against the US most crimes were fairly similar (robberies, burglaries, assault), it was homicides where the US goes batshit insane.
I believe it must be the availability of guns (even on the defending side, making the criminals more aggressive) that makes a homicide happen alongside a robbery where it does not in EU.
I think it also helps to imagine the irresponsible, aggressive, jackass. A common enough fellow amongst many cultures in their own variety. In most of europe this individual is restricted to bar fights and other less lethal means of conflict. In Switzerland, most folks have a gun but also have military training with it and are less likely to have the issues that cause American veterans to be more likely to be violent.
Meanwhile here in America this jackass can buy a gun after jumping through a few hoops depending on what state. Not only can they own a gun, they may be culturally encouraged to whether it’s because of macho posturing, rural lifestyle, or because of any other number of reasons such as being a minority in the Midwest. Once armed the jackass has the means to engage in high emotional violence. Every “I’ll fucking kill you” that is normally accompanied with a fist may come with lead instead.
I often find Americans abroad to be quite charming in how American they are. Certainly, there are some that are obnoxious (and even their friendliness can be obnoxiousness in a way), but it can be quite endearing; Americans (especially the ones you meet while travelling) are so outgoing, and they’re so keen to make connections with people. Like, is it cringe when an American says “oh my great great grandfather was Scottish”, as if makes any difference at all that they are 1/16 Scottish? Yeah, somewhat. But after a friend explained to me that she sees it as coming from a deep desire to connect with other people, I began to see it as quite sweet.
It’s part of why I grieve for what’s going on in America right now. “American-ness” is a messy, mixed concept, and it would be unreasonable to ignore how much of that concept is deeply problematic. However, I feel that there is goodness within that concept, and the people in power at the moment seem hell bent on destroying or undermining what goodness exists there.
Plenty of us are just entitled psychopaths who ate too much lead paint as children, but I think you are correct that the rest of us are looking for connections. We come from a place where our traditions are shallow and our heritage is mostly just awful. We are not only looking to connect, but we are also essentially a bunch of orphans trying to desperately figure out who we are and where we belong.
I know most other people find it obnoxious, so I never really bring it up, but I do, it’s also an invitation to tell me more about who you are and where you come from.As an (expat) American I have always felt a desire to connect with my heritage and experience the old world, despite never having the chance to. It feels crazy to me that people are overseas living where so much history played out, walking old streets past ancient walls and buildings, and often within a short journey to Neolithic sites and old ruins. There are quiet men herding sheep in a windswept field with mossy rock formations just chilling over there beside their prized lamb, Ollie. Americans removed themselves from all of that and over a couple of centuries it became something mythical and out of reach. We are essentially cut off from our own heritage, and are strangers to our own people, but we’ve been brought up in a culture that makes us quite alien to them when we do make the pilgrimage.
It’s kind of a sad thing, but I’ve been away from America long enough to understand why Europeans are so put off. Even the most left-leaning Americans need a lot of de-programming. I know I did. Now when my mother visits I am hyper-aware of how different we have become.
When US Americans get painted this way, it feels like a “Humans- Fuck Yeah” story. Like I’m just so used to us having our downsides highlighted that it feels special to be seen for a positive attribute
It’s a bit like learning that Russian cargo ships don’t get boarded by pirates because they’ll just start fucking shooting.
Say what you want about Russians, but that kind of rules.
Russians are the scariest white people.
Finland slaughtered them something like with a ver lopsided ratio in the winter war. The Finns are pretty white.
Yeah, but Finns are pretty nice (if socially awkward) when you don’t fuck with them. Wouldn’t count on that with Russians.
Russians can be nice too, it’s just that mostly, not unlike the Finnish, they don’t give a fuck about you in general.
TIL Ukrainians aren’t white
/S
Ukrainians aren’t as scary as Russians, they don’t go invading other countries.
I feel like these stories provide second-hand catharsis, but I don’t know if it’s necessarily a positive light.
Yeah seems like committing a violent crime in response to a petty crime to me.
I don’t agree with characterizing being robbed from as not a big deal, especially when it’s as physically intimate as pickpocketing.
Maybe it’s no big deal to lose a bit of money if you’re rich, but I would be truly fucked to lose my phone or wallet, and more than inconvenienced to lose money or objects which would need to be replaced with money.
But more than that is the sense of violation. What gives someone the right to come into my home or put hands on my body and take my personal things? It’s dehumanizing. It feels disgusting to be treated that way. Of course I’m going to defend myself.
Pickpocketing is non violent. It is theft.
Robbery involves the use or threat of violence. It is a violent crime.
The two should not be conflated in either direction. Also pickpocketing does not happen at peoples homes, but in public spaces. This is different from break-ins which are a more serious crime as they violate the private living spaces of people on top of violating their property rights.
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Pickpocketing is a form of larceny that involves the stealing of money or other valuables from the person or a victim’s pocket without them noticing the theft at the time.
Robbery[a] is the crime of taking or attempting to take anything of value by force, threat of force, or use of fear. According to common law, robbery is defined as taking the property of another, with the intent to permanently deprive the person of that property, by means of force or fear; that is, it is a larceny or theft accomplished by an assault.[2] Precise definitions of the offence may vary between jurisdictions. Robbery is differentiated from other forms of theft (such as burglary, shoplifting, pickpocketing, or car theft) by its inherently violent nature (a violent crime); whereas many lesser forms of theft are punished as misdemeanors, robbery is always a felony in jurisdictions that distinguish between the two.
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I think you’re mixing up the words “theft” and “robbery”. Robbery always specifically indicates violence.
I interpreted it as a negative, like “Americans are violent,” heh.
Is it?
I sympathize with the complex though.
We have a hyper sense of justice instilled in us from a young age. It’s like the basis of our country (or so we’re taught).
I’d say it’s more about retribution. There’s a craving for punishment against perceived wrongs.
I think that’s a positive. Americans, in the absence of law enforcement, will fight to defend themselves and their property (and vicariously, the property of others).
Stopping thievery, is, unto itself, a just cause.
Not too surprised. Living in the US, giving a shit about the safety of owned property is pretty much the only thing you can count on.
Property is more important than lives. Where else would people literally say they’d shoot someone for going on “their” land.
In the US, we have a phrase for the mindset you’re describing:
“Fuck you, I got mine.”
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Classic American, extending their personhood to the items they own. Get a grip, your wallet is not you and you’re not defending yourself if it’s stolen.
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In another comment you talk about fascists taking over the world, yet here you are, spouting what a fascist would say in regards to private property, while a socialist would understand the difference between personal property and private property and understands the dangers of the latter. Get educated, schlub. You’re spouting the kind of idiocy that enabled the fascists to take over.
Also I’m in my forties living with cancer in the USA where the treatments cost $18k a month without insurance. Dear god I only wish I had mommy and daddy taking care of me.
I don’t know about you, but my wallet only holds plastic cards… All of which can be cancelled, replaced, and any money spent by the thief returned and restored. The only thing it takes up is a small amount of my personal time. So I really haven’t lost anything at all. I don’t know why you’re so geared up to fuck someone up over such a small inconvenience.
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How do Europeans react to pickpockets?
I caught a pickpocket in Madrid with his hand in my girlfriend’s purse. He was directly behind us on the escalator. We just kind of were like “hey not cool,” then had an awkward escalator ride. We were late for a flight, so didn’t really have time to do much anyway.
I have had stuff stolen in Paris. Mostly, you have no idea it happened until they’re long gone.
You caught a man with his hand in your girlfriend’s purse, and his punishment was a “hey, not cool” and 15 seconds of awkward escalator?
No fucking wonder that happens CONSTANTLY when an awkward 15 second escalator ride is the punishment for getting caught.
What do you suggest they should’ve done instead in that situation? Assault him and get arrested? Report him to the police or airport security and miss the flight while getting the bureaucratic run-around?
Cause a scene. Be obnoxious and in their face. You don’t have to throw a punch to be scary.
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God what a bunch of pussies.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t average American scared to walk to church without a gun of there are 80 year old homeless people on the way?
I haven’t even seen a gun in years. You’re out of touch with reality.
I’m an American and I see guns literally every day. Are you not counting cops, security guards, and soldiers?
I have no reason to come into contact with cops, security guards, or soldiers on a regular basis. I can only assume your “literally” is facetious as well because literally every day is absurd.
And in the context of replying to someone making claims against the “average American” carrying guns, I think it’s appropriate to omit people carrying for work, yes.
warn other people of their presence, publicly shame them
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If anyone deserves a good beating it’s pickpockets.
Found the American!
(I say as an American)
My wife and I were Honeymooning in Paris, purchasing subway passes from an automated kiosk, when a guy who was pretending to be really interested in his phone started getting uncomfortably close to her. She felt him touch her, so she elbowed him real hard, knocking the phone out of his hand, and yelling, “Oh no, are you OK, I’m so sorry, I broke your phone!” real loud (which was true, she cracked his screen). I don’t think he was expecting a 5’2" woman to assault him, because he grabbed his broken phone and started booking it before I could react.
A very nice Parisian came over and told us we needed to be more careful and watch ouf for thieves. We thanked him, but my wife was laughing a few moments later because she just assumed he was a pervert. I thought maybe the phone screen had already been broken, and he was trying to run some sort of, “Hey, you broke my phone, give me money!” scam but chickened out when he saw how aggressively my wife reacted. We live in a major American city, so we’ve experienced crime before, but it never occurred to us that he was trying to pick her pocket. Felt almost quaint, like a Dickens novel.
I live in a tourist trap area of the US and got pick pocketed once shortly after moving here. So I am real cautious of strangers getting close. After doing the Pokemon go rounds one night some dude started following me, and the girl I was dating at the time, from the gas station. I come from a much more densely populated area of the US so I immediately recognized it as a threat, and told her to keep walking and I would catch up. I’ll admit I was a little too aggressive given the situation, cause I saw a “come to jesus” moment in homie’s eyes when he realized how big the dude he was stalking was(I’m easily two standard deviations to the right of bell curve in terms of largeness, but I’m also proportional so most don’t realize it on sight).
I would say I felt bad, but after getting my walker taken and having to go through the bullshit involved, I wasn’t about to take a chance. Funny thing is, the girl actually broke up with me cause of that incident and immediately got with a meth head who took her and her family for what they could.
This story, much like life, has no point other than keep your wallet in a very noticable area.
Edit: Walker=wallet, though i’m not far from a reliance on either.
It’s weird moving to places where the relative danger of different crimes vary.
I grew up in a place where I was mugged at knife point a couple of times. It was a pretty socioeconomically deprived area where this wasn’t normal, but it wasn’t super abnormal either. One of the times I was mugged, I was in a pretty bad place with my mental health, and I said “if you want my phone, then just fucking stab me for it, because I don’t give a fuck anymore”. The guy mugging me seemed to recognise me as someone going through some shit, and became super sympathetic. He even asked me if there was anything he could do to help. A friend who was mugged (at knifepoint) in the same rough area one responded by saying “oh come off it, mate” and continuing walking. It’s like there was a weird sense of solidarity, because we all knew we lived in a shit hole place with no prospects.
I later moved to a much safer city, where being out at night felt tremendously safe. Now, I live in a larger city, and none of my previously cultivated instincts for safety are the right fit. I know that I must be more cautious here than I was in the small, posh city I lived in, but also I feel that the kind of caution I need here is quite different to what was necessary in my home town. Without a calibrated sense of risk in this new city, I often find myself being overly cautious. I suppose that’s a safer side of caution to err on.
You know what’s funny? I got robbed at gunpoint in front of my house. I was wearing a knock off Ulysse Nardin watch, and they didn’t even touch it. They got about $30 from the wallet before being arrested. And no, the cops never gave me my $30.
If I had my wallet stolen, the worst part of it would be having to renew id and stuff. It’s a lot of faff
sidenote, the reading of a thread on twitter is hellish. Top to bottom be damned, it’s like 3 different UIs in one.
Especially if there’s a little addon from Tumblr at the end of something.
why isnt the reddit type formatting good enough?!Hyper individualism. A “fuck you I got mine” mentality. In a country where there is no safety net and you have to suffer for every dime so you can pay a rent just to exist.
Edit - Human life has no value here beyond its utility to the state. Or a corp. Same difference in an oligarchy.
America used to have plenty of pickpocketing, but it’s pretty much gone away for a few reasons:
- Pickpocket apprenticeships have fallen by the wayside, and the actual skills to be able to pull this off are no longer taught to young people.
- The rise of cashless payment norms reduce the reward for a successful pickpocket: canceled credit cards won’t do anything for anyone.
- America is a violent place, and it’s easier to steal with violence or the threat of violence.
- Other types of sneaky nonviolent theft have arisen, and things like identity theft or hacking or other fraud is an alternative outlet for those who might want to non-violently steal someone else’s money.
All this will likely happen in Europe, as well. Just maybe a slower transition in the pockets where cash is still common (tourist destinations with international travelers).
As we say in the USA:
“The police don’t protect us, we protect us”
There are 7 police officers in my town of 13k. We say “Sometimes there’s justice and sometimes there’s just us”
Whole lee shit this is good! I’ve always heard the adage “when seconds count, the police are only minutes away.”
And that’s true for both where I’m from(Miami) and where I moved to(the corner of bum fucked & nowhere)
I live in Canada, there’s surprisingly little pickpocketing here too, and we don’t have the same gun/weapon laws.
Like the Americans, we’ll straight up beat you to a pulp if you try some shit, and we’re very sorry about that… You motherfucker.
If you want to steal shit, at least be moral about it and go to a walmart or something. I’m sorry but I’m not even going to pretend to be sorry about a pickpocket targeting normal people getting his (or her) ass beaten.
Though, on that note, is it harder or riskier to shoplift in Europe? Maybe that’s why we have fewer pickpockets because stores are much easier and safer targets. Unless you get a particularly enthusiastic mall cop after you, even if you get caught, it’ll probably be a fairly polite interaction involving more disappointment than rage, all the way from capture to sentencing, at least in Canada.
Plus these days the odds of getting cash is low and the expensive device everyone carries has gps tracking built in, so the reward might be too low for the risk.
I’m sorry but I’m not even going to pretend to be sorry about a pickpocket targeting normal people getting his (or her) ass beaten.
What about American tourists in a foreign nation that has been historically violently repressed via the American Military and economic shock treatment by American institutions? Those American tourists enabled their government and businesses to do that, via their votes and their labor for said businesses. In this respect they are not just “regular people” in a place like Mexico, Chile, Iran, Iraq, and so on.
You know rich people have rigged our gov for ages. Those wars we fought were highly unpopular and nobody wanted them. Rich people made lots of money as a result. Believe it or not, “no more stupid wars” was part of Trump’s campaign platform. It’s about the only part that dems liked too. You can’t run for office here without being super rich unless it’s local or an anomaly.
Bernie Sanders, David Hogg, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and Jasmine Crockett.
Stop this defeatist attitude bullshit. The real problem is people don’t vote in the fucking primaries.
Zohran Mamdani is an example of what happens when people turn out for the primary.
Upvote for being right.
Omg, this turned out to be a thread with plenty explanations to USians that societies have laws, police, judges…
You can blame the orange guy all you want, but your culture is completely derailed. Murder (under whatever “reasons”) can’t be a national sport.
Weapon manufacturers really did a good job in the land of the free…
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I mean obviously the gun laws are insane but the act of collectively beating the shit out of pickpockets has my respect.
What about a pickpocket that stole a stupid iPhone from a rich teen who would get a new one the very next day? And, in some less frequent cases, the pickpocket may have had actual needs like buying medicine…
That’s the reason we have a judicial system. Not even police are supposed to do harm, only prevent harm and bring into justice system.
I know the system has many flaws. That’s beyond the point. Those who prefer to go vigilante are calling for making it worse. Specially if we take into account the effects of inequality on a hands-on self-service judicial approach…
And, in some less frequent cases, the pickpocket may have had actual needs like buying medicine…
Likewise, a pickpocketing victim may also need to buy medicine.
Fair point. Thanks for providing it with assertiveness.
How’s the pickpocket to know the person in question’s situation? That’s one of the top justifications scammers in india use as to why they pretend what they do is reasonable. But reality is they don’t know, and they don’t care. They’ll steal from anyone.
I know the system has many flaws. That’s beyond the point.
That isn’t beyond the point. That is the point.
Also you can make up sob stories about those people all day if you want to. Got nothing to do with reality but if you like to feel sad for them knock yourself out.
Watching 60 days in is an absolutely insane thing to watch as a non american. People living like cockroaches in moldy shit stained rooms. People just sleep on the floor because they are over capacity, violence, food that looks just downright like a hazard to eat. And people in there are like: yeah, i’ve been here 10 times. I can’t get a job so i do crime and then i land here again. Or guys like: i grew some weed, so obviously i’m in this slave hole for 10 years.
There’s no pickpocketing in the US because thieves will shoot you before taking your wallet. At that point it’s murder with a motive
I was thinking it was because, in many places people are carrying in public, and if you steal from the wrong person, you’re dead.
Yeah that’s why crime has plummeted /s
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Probably easier way of defeating pick pockets is to carry a decoy or purse wallet with a painful surprise in it.
booby trapping is illegal and will get you in trouble while the pickpocket sues you into generational debt
Prove it. Police response time for non-emergancy issues could easily be 30+ minutes after which i would have moved on. Also investigatory resources for cases that aren’t gift wrapped or murders are about nil.
Civil cases for any meaningful non-small claims affair are going to start at 5000-10,000 and are basically unavailable for poor people. You aren’t entitled to a free lawyer.
Small claims is going to be for actual damages which are going to be about nil and are going to get you near no money and 15 minutes of fame.
Here is what actually happens. Thief endures a small amount of pain and humiliation and fucks off.
The actual risk isn’t a hypothetical lawsuit it’s that it leads to a fight where you might be injured.
i have to prove booby trapping is illegal? ok thats pretty easy thanks
The thief would have to prove that they were harmed by a particular person. Meanwhile such attacks are in public places people are moving through hit and run style. Police response times are long on non-emergency issues and the last thing the thief wants is police contact.
A: The thief doesn’t call the cops B: If the thief does call the cops the person is gone, C: If they follow you are being followed by someone who tried to harm you pepper spray them D: the police do not meaningfully investigate the thief’s claims if they are alone E: if both parties are present the police don’t care about petty crimes they didn’t see and therefore can’t prove so let everyone go F: If you got harmed reaching into someone’s purse they are liable to prosecute the thief not the victim if anyone especially if they admit they had their hand in your purse G: if the thief does try to sue its in small claims court for actual damages which are small and creates a record of their identity allowing you to popularize their face and identity in the local area as the thief who sued his victim. Seriously start putting up posters with their face around the area. Loss of illicit revenue will be higher than gains. Hopefully they also get stomped later.
Since all of these things are implicitly obvious and most importantly the first rule being a hood is avoid police contact we basically normally always stop at 1.
